spiderw31 Posted March 3, 2010 Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 Problem #1 solved. Found a Chevy dealer in Virginia that had the part in stock, it will be in at the end of the week... BTW, another helpful parts department gave me an exploded diagram of the LQ1 block, along with the current Part# list of pretty much anything that goes on an LQ1 short block. Would that be useful to the list, and if so, how would the best way be to get it to the list? Hmm... the dealer I picked my plate up at also gave me an exploded diagram, and is here in VA as well. Interesting coincidence! Also, I've been reading up on the procedure, and most are saying the cam gear holder tool is absolutely needed in order to not bend the cam hold down, or tear up the threads that hold down uses when the cam gear is torqued down to 96 foot-pounds. I've been told you don't really need it, but I was really sketched out about putting that kind of torque on the hold down tools and cams. I figured I'd rather play that one safe after all the time, effort and cash I had into it. Get the tools; if nothing else you will know that you got the torque values right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galaxie500XL Posted March 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 I'm thinking along the same lines, but with everything else, have a little trouble coming up with $100.00 to buy a tool that has only one use. Any ideas where I can find one cheap, or another tool that will do the job for less money? Already checked Ebay, no luck there.. Problem #1 solved. Found a Chevy dealer in Virginia that had the part in stock, it will be in at the end of the week... BTW, another helpful parts department gave me an exploded diagram of the LQ1 block, along with the current Part# list of pretty much anything that goes on an LQ1 short block. Would that be useful to the list, and if so, how would the best way be to get it to the list? Hmm... the dealer I picked my plate up at also gave me an exploded diagram, and is here in VA as well. Interesting coincidence! Also, I've been reading up on the procedure, and most are saying the cam gear holder tool is absolutely needed in order to not bend the cam hold down, or tear up the threads that hold down uses when the cam gear is torqued down to 96 foot-pounds. I've been told you don't really need it, but I was really sketched out about putting that kind of torque on the hold down tools and cams. I figured I'd rather play that one safe after all the time, effort and cash I had into it. Get the tools; if nothing else you will know that you got the torque values right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderw31 Posted March 3, 2010 Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 This is where I got mine: http://www.etoolcart.com/camshaftsprocketholder-j-38614.aspx Still kind of expensive though. I think you'd likely to use something like this too: http://www.etoolcart.com/camholderbom4394.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galaxie500XL Posted March 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 I've been to that very website... I've considered the possibility of making some sort of strap wrench out of the old belt to hold things in place..but I'm not sure if that's practical to do. If so, it would have the advantage of being cheap. This is where I got mine: http://www.etoolcart.com/camshaftsprocketholder-j-38614.aspx Still kind of expensive though. I think you'd likely to use something like this too: http://www.etoolcart.com/camholderbom4394.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderw31 Posted March 3, 2010 Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 How about $33 for this one? http://www.etoolcart.com/camholderlis38220.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galaxie500XL Posted March 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 I like the price, but do our LQ1 sprockets have holes? I was thinking they only had slots... Thought about it some more, would this work? Use an old-fashioned lever type oil filter wrench, cut a section of the old timing belt to fit inside. It appears the cam gear generally has a little over 1/4 inches showing on the end past the belt. Cement the cut piece of belt to the inside of the filter wrench, then get a helper to apply pressure to the lever of the wrench in the opposing direction you're tightening the cam gear bolt... After all, all you're really trying to do is relieve pressure on the camshaft and camshaft hold down tool while torquing the camshaft gear bolt...I doubt you could generate 96 ft/lbs of counterpressure with an oil filter wrench, but I'm thinking it would be enough help to prevent damage... What do you think of this idea? How about $33 for this one? http://www.etoolcart.com/camholderlis38220.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderw31 Posted March 3, 2010 Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 The sprockets on my '92 have holes, and I assumed that was true of all LQ1s though I do know know this to be a fact. What you describe may work for loosening the bolts, but I don't think it would work for tightening. With the new belt in place, I doubt that the small amount of exposed pulley would be enough to do much with. Also, there won't be all that much room on the rear bank, so having the filter wrench sticking out won't make it any easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galaxie500XL Posted March 5, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2010 Started the teardown this afternoon. Cause of failure was bearing failure of the right-hand idler. Unfortunately, the belt cover cracked under the pressure on the LH side (or as a result of a previous owner's poor repair). Had a terrible time getting the cover off without damaging it more, the idler had rubbed into the inside of the cover, and the idler and inside of the belt cover were melted together. There's a '94 LQ1 Grand Prix in the local yard, going to go in the morning, and see if the cover is useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL Posted March 5, 2010 Report Share Posted March 5, 2010 If not, Buck (Sudowoodo) has about 3 extra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galaxie500XL Posted March 5, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2010 Thanks! Hopefully, the junkyard car still has the cover..there doesn't seem to be too many people picking over LQ1 parts around here... What looks like happened is when the bearing failed, the belt rode to the inside of the idler, broke the back end down, which then caused the idler to ride up at the top, and tear into the cam cover. I will reassemble it in the morning, after my junkyard run...but to tell the truth, finding an obvious failure actually made me feel a bit better. It should be running again tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galaxie500XL Posted March 6, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 Well, now that the car is torn apart, my Ebay bid came through. Just bought the ENTIRE Kent-Moore specialty tool set for the LQ1, in the factory case, for $85.00, plus $20.00 shipping. There look to be tools in the kit I don't even know what they're for! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderw31 Posted March 6, 2010 Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 Well, now that the car is torn apart, my Ebay bid came through. Just bought the ENTIRE Kent-Moore specialty tool set for the LQ1, in the factory case, for $85.00, plus $20.00 shipping. There look to be tools in the kit I don't even know what they're for! Now that's a good deal! Having the right tools at that price is good stuff! What looks like happened is when the bearing failed, the belt rode to the inside of the idler, broke the back end down, which then caused the idler to ride up at the top, and tear into the cam cover. I will reassemble it in the morning, after my junkyard run...but to tell the truth, finding an obvious failure actually made me feel a bit better. I know exactly the feeling you describe. The front idler failed on mine too, taking the belt out in short order. Once I got it pulled apart, I found there was more than 1/4" of play in the bearing . I knew exactly what had happened once I saw that. If you haven't done this job on an LQ1 before, double check everything as you go just to make sure it is right. It isn't really a bad job to get done, just something you don't want to do twice in a row! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galaxie500XL Posted March 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2010 Well, I've gotten it mostly apart, and am now ON HOLD... One of the homeade cam holder keys on the flats snapped, and the other is slightly bent...decided to just wait for the proper tools to arrive to finish the job. They should arrive sometime this week, it's a Kent-Moore J-38621-2 kit. Trying to figure out how to send a pic...the right-hand idler was nearly completely destroyed, but surprisingly, the belt still looked pretty good. Both exhaust cams were still in time, but both intake cams had slipped at least 2-3 teeth. After cleaning all the garbage out, other than a ruined cam cover plate, which is plastic, no other damage. The junkyard cam cover was broken in half on the far left, but is still overall in better shape than the one my idler melted itself to...if anyone has a good cover for a reasonable price, I'm interested. Otherwise, I'll just the junkyard cover. I did a duct tape repair on both sides, then painted the cover on both sides with VHT hi-temp engine paint. It tends to slightly stiffen the duct tape, and glue the edges of the duct tape down...after all, there's not much stress on the cover, I just want to keep oil, dirt, and water out of the cam belt area. I'm putting all new parts in...but I'll save the tensioner actuator and plate, in case they ever need to be used... I've been told GM is discontinuing a lot of the parts for the LQ1, along with other older engines to save money. Don't know if that's really true, but I do know I had difficulty getting an actuator plate. Well, now that the car is torn apart, my Ebay bid came through. Just bought the ENTIRE Kent-Moore specialty tool set for the LQ1, in the factory case, for $85.00, plus $20.00 shipping. There look to be tools in the kit I don't even know what they're for! Now that's a good deal! Having the right tools at that price is good stuff! What looks like happened is when the bearing failed, the belt rode to the inside of the idler, broke the back end down, which then caused the idler to ride up at the top, and tear into the cam cover. I will reassemble it in the morning, after my junkyard run...but to tell the truth, finding an obvious failure actually made me feel a bit better. I know exactly the feeling you describe. The front idler failed on mine too, taking the belt out in short order. Once I got it pulled apart, I found there was more than 1/4" of play in the bearing . I knew exactly what had happened once I saw that. If you haven't done this job on an LQ1 before, double check everything as you go just to make sure it is right. It isn't really a bad job to get done, just something you don't want to do twice in a row! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galaxie500XL Posted March 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 Well, I'm out there this morning, feeling good about having the genuine Kent-Moore tools for this job. I start to remove the cam gear bolts, using the proper tool==I'm beginning to destroy the square drive where the bar goes as I try to remove the cam gear bolt! Any ideas, before I destroy an expensive tool, and my sanity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White93z34 Posted March 19, 2010 Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 my tool looks mildly destroyed as well from use... it was like that when i got it. I think they could have made it more sturdy myself. to date I have not used that tool, well I tried the first time but it only ended in my cutting myself open. best advise I can think to give is maybe get a second person to hold it while you reef on the bolt, but i think its going to get deformed no matter what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galaxie500XL Posted March 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 I'm going to spray the threads with penetrating oil, like PB blaster, maybe that will help. I'm considering taking the tool to a welder, and having a short extension welded to the tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galaxie500XL Posted March 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 Well, problems abound. I had a 1/2 drive extension welded to the Kent-Moore tool, which solved that problem. Now, a new problem has arisen. The threads for the cam hold down tool are stipped in the right hand cam carrier. Looks like it's Helicoil time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galaxie500XL Posted March 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 Well, solved the problem with Helicoil. One more question though...since the repaired thread normally has NO bolt in it, unless you have temporarily installed the cam holder, would it make sense to get a short 8mm x 1.25 bolt, and install it in the helicoil before buttoning things back up? I'd hate for vibration over time to allow the helicoil to work it's way out of the bolt hole, and into the engine... Additionally, what did you all use to get the cam gears loose once the bolt was removed? I busted up tons of wood trying to hammer them from the back side to get the collets to release...surely there is a better way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderw31 Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 Well, solved the problem with Helicoil. One more question though...since the repaired thread normally has NO bolt in it, unless you have temporarily installed the cam holder, would it make sense to get a short 8mm x 1.25 bolt, and install it in the helicoil before buttoning things back up? I'd hate for vibration over time to allow the helicoil to work it's way out of the bolt hole, and into the engine... Additionally, what did you all use to get the cam gears loose once the bolt was removed? I busted up tons of wood trying to hammer them from the back side to get the collets to release...surely there is a better way... If there is clearance, I don't see any harm on leaving a bolt in. Wish I could help with the cam gears though, but mine is a '92 with the old style lock rings. I used the Kent Moore puller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galaxie500XL Posted March 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2010 Well, after 1 month, $500.00 of parts and tools, stripped aluminum threads, poor repairs from the previous owner, getting my other car hit in the rear at the welders, and about 30 hours of labor, my '95 LQ1 is finally moving under it's own power. It scared me a good bit at first, the battery has been disconnected for about a month now, and it ran horrible when I first started it up. After a time of idling, and a 15 mile trip to test things out, it's running very smoothly, and seems to have more power than before! Thanks to everyone who helped me through what was definitely the most challenging auto repair I've done in years, short of a total rebuild! Let's hope it lasts for years--I'm not looking forward to doing this again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderw31 Posted March 21, 2010 Report Share Posted March 21, 2010 Good deal man! It's a great feeling when the hard work pays off like that, isn't it? Remember this: when the time comes (in 60k miles) to do it again, it won't be nearly as hard since you already know where the gotchas are. I used to live in fear of the t-belt, but now that I've done it, it's just another repair! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaloutsider Posted March 21, 2010 Report Share Posted March 21, 2010 yay!! I'm excited for you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White93z34 Posted March 21, 2010 Report Share Posted March 21, 2010 after the first time its not bad at all. I'll be doing one of these soon, no matter how I cut it it always ends up being a all day affair though. I may do a write up of the next one. glad to see its back alive. I wish I had replied sooner but I had a stripped bolt in the same place too, I just tapped it out to 1/4 inch since i had the tap and the bolt at my disposal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrtis Posted September 11, 2010 Report Share Posted September 11, 2010 Congrats on the fix. I am about to take on the same repair. My 95 olds cutlass convert started making a ticking sound, took off the covers to inspect the T- belt and it has started sliding off the front camshaft gears and rubbing the cover. The car is still timed correctly, runs fine, just the noise. Will i need to have the cam hold downs to replace all the parts? By the way bought the car new in 95 and tensioner/T-belt broke at 28k so dealer replaced under warranty and it took them 2 tries to get the damn thing timed. I myself have replaced the alternator 3 times, intake gaskets twice, and the fuel injector o-rings thus the second intake set. Thx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galaxie500XL Posted September 16, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2010 You'll really want the hold downs, it makes the job much easier. You may also want the cam gear tool, because you'll have to break the gears loose from the cams in order to time the engine. I wouldn't be running it the way it is, though...mine started with a tick, and without any actual warning, jumped time. Fortunately, it did it in my driveway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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