yellow sludge and other questions

[npfd]

Hi all,

 

The usual, 97 CS 3100 with like 199k km's up here in Canada with cold winters.

 

I was suprised to notice from yellow sludge underneath the oil cap this past mid December. We did an oil change and sludge was still there, actually more quantity, all along the top of the inside of the valve cover. I've tried driving the car hard and more on highways but the sludge is still there. In very cold temperatures the sludge freezes while in mild its goey.

 

I've read up quite a bit about it and if I'm not mistaken its moisture in the oil. We have no sludging problem in warmer months like this past summer so this gets me quite concerned.

 

Just for curiosity I took out the PCV valve to check and it did have sludge in it, (i just wiped the visual sludge, and it rattles) and in the pipe before it which goes to the intake. Should the PCV valve be changed? I do not think it has been changed on the Olds yet, if ever it was done it would have been at least 4-5 years ago. Ago for the last couple of years I've always noticed that the oil lip, just below the oil filter theres always oil, even though we tighten the oil filter, and clean it off previous gaskets. I did read up that faulty PCV valves create more crankcase pressure plus oil leaks out... do you guys think its worth it to change the PCV valve or just a waste of time...? Could the dipstick be allowing moisture in?

 

I noticed that I have to add oil every few months, and very little coolant like once or twice a year. We did the LIM gasket so I don't think that should be a problem.

 

Another thing is that I've been adding power steering fluid a couple of times a year too, it seems to be a very slow leak, does anybody know the common places for PS fluid to start leaking from?

 

Thanks for any help.

[Regal_GS_1989]

I have had this happen before as well and it startled me a bit. There is a very easy way to check if it is condensation or coolant sludge. Put a tiny bit of the sludge on your finger, and touch it to your tongue. If it tastes burnt, or oily, then it is merely condensation due to the engine constantly being warmed up and cooled. If it has a sweet taste to it, then it is coolant.

 

 

[Brian P]

I would run a UV dye thru the cooling system and see if that transfers to the oil. The gaskets may have been done already but it could always be a repeat-failure. That sounds like a lot of water to be solely from condensation.

 

As for the P/S system check the pump and high-pressure line going from the pump to the steering rack for seepage.

[Crazy K]

taste test the sludge. do not swallow! if it is sweet then you have some coolant in your oil.

 

You should probably expect to do intake gaskets on the engine sooner or later, no matter what. When you do, make sure you get the high quality Permadaryplus Fel-pro ones. Any other and you are guaranteed to have to do it again.

 

I would try to clean the PVC first.

 

Another tip, in case the gasket IS bad and you cannot get around to dealing with it yet: take the radiator cap. notice it has a lower seal that holds pressure. Rip off that seal. This reduces system pressure, and will prevent coolant system pressurization which contributes to the leak.

[Masterchief362]

I had the same yellow sludge on my oil cap and pcv a few weeks ago on my 95 CS 3100... now that the temps have gone up a bit and I did some more spirited driving there is none left (thankfully since I had an entire heads up gasket job about 2 years ago)... check the dipstick, if there are any bubbles or sludge on it then it may be coolant in the oil which means more than likely failed LIM gaskets. If the dipstick is clean and just has regular oil then the sludge up top is more than likely just condensation. Winter FTL.

[chevyguy8893]

Whenever I have seen that it was because of the person doing a lot of short distance driving. Although checking it never hurts as a preventative measure.

[npfd]

Thanks dudes,

 

The dipstick is clean, so I'm thinking as you guys mentioned its just condensation. But the car gets driven on the highway a good bit.. almost everyday for about 10-20 mins, minimum. I guess it needs more. I think i'm gonna pass on the tasting sludge for now but good idea though wouldn't have thought of that!

 

The hose on the P/S if it leaks can we just replace it with regular rubber hose or is it a hard plastic one? This I'm going to check in a few months when the weather is warmer outside.

 

 

[Crazy K]

A taste test is the only answer to know.

 

Don't be Bliss.

[DaveFromColorado]

I had that problem TONS of times, and finally someone told me to Check (and replace) my PCV valve. That little part goes so often unchecked. It's there to help pull some of the moisture out of the system from instances like this.

 

--Dave.

[npfd]

Thanks again for the input, we managed to change the PCV the other day, it seemed a little stuck, clogged up. Also I manage to break the rubber elbow, so we got a new piece from the part store, and also picked up the rubber grommet from GM, since the old one was very loose fitting for the PCV valve. I hope this fixes the moisture problem.

 

As for PS fluid, is the High pressure line the metal one bolted into the P/S pump, or the rubber hose and metal clip?

 

Thanks

[Robb235]

I'm getting the yellow sludge as you describe, and it's my LIM gaskets leaking... again. They were replaced once at 70k miles, but now with 140k, they're leaking again. Are you losing coolant? That was the key indicator for me that the gaskets had failed again.

[Crazy K]

Thanks again for the input, we managed to change the PCV the other day, it seemed a little stuck, clogged up. Also I manage to break the rubber elbow, so we got a new piece from the part store, and also picked up the rubber grommet from GM, since the old one was very loose fitting for the PCV valve. I hope this fixes the moisture problem.

 

As for PS fluid, is the High pressure line the metal one bolted into the P/S pump, or the rubber hose and metal clip?

 

Thanks

well... to hazard a guess... which line looks like it wants to see some pressure? the metal one.

 

 

I'm getting the yellow sludge as you describe, and it's my LIM gaskets leaking... again. They were replaced once at 70k miles, but now with 140k, they're leaking again. Are you losing coolant? That was the key indicator for me that the gaskets had failed again.

taste test would be a good way to know if there was any doubt.... but when you had them replaced, where they the high quality gaskets?

 

I've noticed that the OEM gaskets are better than the basic fel-pro gaskets. I've seen the basic fel-pro ones worm(expand/swell and shift) under contact with some engine substance, to the point where they simply move out of position and fail. High quality fel-pro Perma-dry is the only way to go.

[npfd]

I will check the metal pipe once the weather gets better so in a few months.. Let's say tightening it doesn't work, where else should I look?

 

We replaced the LIM gasket with the GM ones in 2006+ several other ones than needed to be replaced when we removed the top end pieces. Surprisingly we saw the gasket already on the car was fine, maybe the previous owner had the work done...

 

thanks.

[npfd]

Just an update,

 

After two weeks of changing the pcv valve, there was less yellow sludge. Now after several weeks, its starting to buildup again, not as fast as before. Even when I undo the oil cap after a long highway drive you can see water droplets. Sometimes I don't get it why it happens on this car, we have another mazda protege 5 that gets driven a lot around the city, stop and go, and has no sludge whatsoever, while the Olds get driven more on the highway, and slightly harder and there is sludge buildup.

 

We still have an oil leak at the oil filter, unless its something else in that area. It seems like after every oil change it always drips. Wherever I park the car and after move it you can see the spot, even if the car is left there for only a while. The size is about my palm. I gave 1/4 turn with an oil filter wrench and hasn't helped, I think this time might had made it worse. I think once after tightening it several times it finally stopped, I do not want to do too much.

 

We make sure the old gasket on the oil filter is off before putting on the new filter. I read up about the lifter tick, and I may hear this sound as I'm poking around the engine bay. I'm not sure if its the belt tensioner as we put on a prestone make last year. I can't confirm if it goes up with rpm, but I do not hear anything from inside the cabin at idle or high rpm.

 

 

[Brian P]

I would run a UV dye thru the cooling system and see if that transfers to the oil. The gaskets may have been done already but it could always be a repeat-failure. That sounds like a lot of water to be solely from condensation.

 

 

I'm not saying this just to bust balls but you may want to look into doing this before you wash the bearings and ruin the motor. UV dye is like $5 and the detection kit is a few $ more. If nothing else, it will rule out a common problem that these motors succumb to.

[npfd]

hey Brian,

 

Thanks for the input and reminder. We could have a look at this, but this dye stuff and detection kit we can get it an any parts store? The condensation problem really started at the end of December in colder temperatures, like -5 degrees Celsius and more.

 

Thanks.

[Brian P]

Yeah most auto parts stores should have it. It helped me find a pinhole leak on a heater core hose that developed from a minor abrasion and would leak just enough to cause a coolant smell (and no visible puddles).