jman093 Posted January 16, 2010 Report Share Posted January 16, 2010 All 1991-1993 AS platform Chrysler Corp minivans use a brake system that looks very much like the GM PMIII system as if they may have came from the same supplier (I know Chrysler's system was a Bendix 10). Looking at pictures of the PMIII, it is definitely different than the Chrysler unit, but similar enough that maybe some of the internals are the same and could be used to rebuild a PMIII? That accumulator ball we always have to replace on the Chrysler unit looks like the exact one on the PMIII. I've never messed with a PMIII, but if you guys also have the same problems as the Chrysler Bendix unit (leaking accumulators, bad pump motors, etc) maybe it would be worth looking at the millions of those vans in junkyards to see if the parts are the same. Also, all the rebuild parts for the Chrysler units (actuator pistons, pump motor, accumulator) can still be purchased at the dealer with core charges, but beware because I think it's all expensive as hell as they are not manufactured anymore (hence the core exchange). Maybe this won't work or has already been looked into, but I thought I'd throw it out there since the similarities caught my eye and I know the PMIII is as troublesome for TGP owners as the Chrysler unit is on their old minivans. Edit:This system was also used on some cars too. New Yorkers, Dynastys, Imperials, etc in those same years. There is an older Bendix 9 system on like 89-91 Jeeps that I haven't seen personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted January 16, 2010 Report Share Posted January 16, 2010 good question. I actually pulled one of those once, but i don't have any of the answers as to what is similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfewtrail Posted January 16, 2010 Report Share Posted January 16, 2010 Funny how you posted this now when I've just been researching other alternatives. I'm not familiar w/ the chrysler systems, but I'll look into those. I have been comparing the PMIII to the Teves Mark II integrated setups from Buicks, Cadillacs, various Fords, Saabs, etc. and there are a lot of general similarities there. The GM accumulators meant for the Teves system will swap over to our units. Most of the others from different brands should swap over as well. I think the only difference I've seen is that the earliest Ford's w/ the teves mark II unit might have a different thread size. Pre-charge pressures should be identical as working pressures of each setup are nearly identical(30psi lower cutoff rating for the Teves vs. the PMIII). The GM units meant for the PMIII are pre-charged to 1200psi. The accumulators themselves have higher pressure ratings stamped on them than that, but that's not the pre-charge, it's actually the max working pressure of the unit(3000-3045psi depending upon the GM accumulator that you use). The teves accumulators seem to be more abundant than our own due to their usage spanning over several makes/models for a few years. They're around $140-150 from vendors online and there's actually a guy with 10 of them on ebay right now charging right at $105 shipped for them. GM part number for the teves accum. that swaps over is 25528382. I actually posted a link here a few years ago that mentioned this GM part # from a Lotus website, but I guess we all had forgot about it. Right now, I've really only compared the accumulators. Next up, I plan to compare the pressure switches. The next time I'm at a junkyard, I might grab a few parts or a whole teves setup if I can find one. Pressure switches for the PMIII are supposedly not made anymore, so having another option there would be nice for those of us that plan on keeping these setups. I could never go to vacuum brakes after seeing how much better the braking performance is with the PMIII...Once I have more information, I might organize my post(s) a bit better, split them off to their own separate topic, and sticky it here or place it in the FAQ. EDIT: I figure while I'm posting this sort of stuff, I would mention something about the old Prior Remanufacturing accumulators for our cars(made by Hydac). The Hydac units were pre-charged @ 1,000psi. I have one of these in my black car and it brakes exactly like my other car w/ the GM unit. The pump run time maybe be slightly longer due to the small difference in pre-charge, but you probably wouldn't notice unless you were timing it. The Hydac aftermarket units should be available for a long time to come. Right now, the best option is the GM one I mentioned above as it's cheaper and more of a direct swap(hydac accumulator is physically larger in size, but still not difficult to install). The Hydac units used to sell for $105 from Prior reman. The cheapest I've found them currently is about $150 + shipping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfewtrail Posted January 16, 2010 Report Share Posted January 16, 2010 After a little searching, I've found that the Bendix 10 setups operate at a lower pressure than our unit. 1600-2000psi and the accumulator has a 1,000psi pre-charge. Since the working pressure is lower, the accumulator might not have as high of a max pressure rating as our own. Someone would probably have to look at the info possibly stamped on those for actual max rating pressures though. If it has a similar max pressure and same thread, then it should be fine to use. Since no typical service manuals likely do not cover rebuilds for any units mentioned so far, someone would probably have to tear a few apart to see what, if anything, internally could be swapped between different units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboGTU Posted March 14, 2010 Report Share Posted March 14, 2010 I just slaped a mid 90s Volvo accumulator on mine. Bad part is my car is still on jack stands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pontiac6KSTEAWD Posted March 14, 2010 Report Share Posted March 14, 2010 My STE has the the Teves Mark 2 system. Very different system as far as I can tell. And the Teves system is very easily changed over to a Standard brake system. Just pull the system out, and put the new one in. If you need pics, let me know. The STE is just sitting in the driveway waiting for a new owner... SOMEONE BUY IT! I really dont want to donate the car... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GutlessSupreme Posted March 22, 2010 Report Share Posted March 22, 2010 I didn't give it a thorough look, but sometime last year I did briefly look into industrial pressure switches that are threaded similar to our own. They're out there, but from what I recall they were still up in the $100 range. If I look again and find anything specific, I'll post an update. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfewtrail Posted March 22, 2010 Report Share Posted March 22, 2010 I didn't give it a thorough look, but sometime last year I did briefly look into industrial pressure switches that are threaded similar to our own. They're out there, but from what I recall they were still up in the $100 range. If I look again and find anything specific, I'll post an update. That would be good info to have. I did some more research and the pressure switch for the Teves is rated differently, so it probably wouldn't function properly even if it were the same thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GutlessSupreme Posted March 22, 2010 Report Share Posted March 22, 2010 They sell them in all sorts of pressure ranges, so you'd just have to find one matching your appropriate system. If it comes to it, <insert resistors here>. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jman093 Posted May 26, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2010 (edited) Found another vehicle to add to this list to maybe keep an eye out for in JY's. Today at work, I was working on an 1990 Oldsmobile 98 (the older better looking pre-91 body style), and it had a PMIII or some other integral ABS system on it. Was actually working too! Edit: Did a little research. It's apparently a Teves Mark 2 system that was used on a motherload of full size GM and FMC cars from about 1985-1990. Still, maybe good for parts though? Edited May 26, 2010 by jman093 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted June 1, 2010 Report Share Posted June 1, 2010 Anyone have any luck with the NOS Teves II accumulators? I read reviews on them, and several people pointed out they've been sitting around 20yrs and some are either no good or don't last long. One person claimed shelf life on accumulators is only 10yrs. The price is right though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jman093 Posted June 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 Anyone have any luck with the NOS Teves II accumulators? I read reviews on them, and several people pointed out they've been sitting around 20yrs and some are either no good or don't last long. One person claimed shelf life on accumulators is only 10yrs. The price is right though! The aforementioned Oldsmobile I worked on had working ABS, so some of them still have to be ok. Besides unlike PM3 or integral units, it shouldn't be hard to find salvage yard vehicles with Teves II. Here's a list of everything that used it: 1985 to 1989 Lincoln Continental 1985 to 1992 Lincoln Mark VII 1986 to 1989 Buick LeSabre 1986 to 1990 Buick Electra, Park Avenue 1986 to 1989 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham 1986 to 1990 Cadillac DeVille 1986 to 1990 Oldsmobile 98 1986 to 1990 Pontiac 6000 STE 1987 to 1992 Ford Thunderbird 1987 to 1992 Mercury Cougar 1987 to 1993 Saab 9000 1988 to 1989 Cadillac Eldorado, Seville 1988 to 1989 Buick Reatta, Riviera 1988 to 1989 Merkur Scorpio 1988 to 1990 Oldsmobile Delta 88, Toronado 1988 to 1991 Peugeot 505 1988 to 1990 Pontiac Bonneville & SSE 1991 to 1993 Saab 900 1991 to 1993 Volkswagen Passat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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