dodgethis Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Hey guys I got a problem with the 98 lumina. I understand that 3100 are notorious for having light piston slap when you first start them. I recently have picked up some type of rattle, or tick of some sort. I had already replaced the spark plugs, wires, air filter, pcv, serpentine belt right at around 85,000. The car has ran great, but little after a couple of days I start hearing this noise when I give it light throttle. I have no check engine light, and double checked with a scanner. I have made a video of it. It's weird because I can't reproduce it when I have the car in neutral and just slowly raise the rpm's. It only seems to do it when I am at a stop and gradually accelerate. It seems when the car is under load it will do it 9 times out of 10. The car drives fine, has power, but I can't tell if this is piston slap, or lifters, to remedy it before it gets bad. This can't be normal: http://home.comcast.net/~dodge1063/car/lumina.avi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutty Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Did you recently check the oil level, i have seen many cars that tap like that when low on oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1990lumina Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Hmmm...you're right that doesn't sound good. It's not a normal sound either for this motor, unless I'm hearing it wrong the lifters and piston slap sound a lot different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19Cutlass94 Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 I couldnt hear anything from that vid. get a vid with the hood up. But yes lifters and picton slap are two different sounds. Coming from two different places. Open the hood and start the car listen to where teh sound is coming from. Could just be a collapsed lifter. Ive got two of them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodgethis Posted December 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Did you recently check the oil level, i have seen many cars that tap like that when low on oil. Hey cutty Yea the oil level is fine. That was first thing I checked when I started hearing the noise. I couldnt hear anything from that vid. get a vid with the hood up. But yes lifters and picton slap are two different sounds. Coming from two different places. Open the hood and start the car listen to where teh sound is coming from. Could just be a collapsed lifter. Ive got two of them... icon_cry 19Cutlass94 I'll try to get another video with the engine, but like I said I can't get it to make the noise either in park or neutral, but I'll give it another shot after I get something to eat. Hey you mentioned you have collapsed lifters, did you remove the head to see it was collapsed? How do you tell without tearing into the engine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19Cutlass94 Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 If you cant get it to make the noise in park or neutral, I doubt its the engine. If it was the engine, it would make the noise reguardless of where the tranny was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 my 95 3100 had a similar "tick" around 2000 rpm. the rear exhaust manifold had 3 broken studs...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavarium454 Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 I would look into what Crazy K said. My 92 SE had a bad rattle at around 2300 rpm and it was because of my exhaust being completely rusted (What do they call this, resonance frequency or something?). Does it get louder the higher you climb in the rpm range or the faster you go or is it just at a certain rpm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodgethis Posted December 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 I would look into what Crazy K said. My 92 SE had a bad rattle at around 2300 rpm and it was because of my exhaust being completely rusted (What do they call this, resonance frequency or something?). Does it get louder the higher you climb in the rpm range or the faster you go or is it just at a certain rpm? Octavarium454, Yea the rattle does get louder upon increasing the throttle. You can't hear it once the car is on the interstate around 50 to 70 mph, but when slowing down and getting back on the throttle it come back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavarium454 Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Hmm, well that would eliminate the exhaust deal. It sounds like a rod knock but if you still have power that makes no sense. Get that video with the hood popped open. That is definitely not a lifter tick though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodgethis Posted December 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Ok, guys i'll have a video up in a sec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodgethis Posted December 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Here is vid of the hood with car running. link: http://home.comcast.net/~dodge1063/car/lumina2.avi It's 19mb. I can compress it if its too large of a file. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 compression R Gud! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodgethis Posted December 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 compression R Gud! Rob you serious or are you joking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 i might have 1Mbps DSL, but it still takes forever for a video where the audio is all i'm interested in... post a 320Kbps MP3? or FLAC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodgethis Posted December 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 i might have 1Mbps DSL, but it still takes forever for a video where the audio is all i'm interested in... Yea man let me see what i can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodgethis Posted December 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Yea I made the file small from 19mb to 7mb. Let me know if that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodgethis Posted December 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 Well I took some time after work and looked down the engine a little further. How do you tell if the Lower intake gaskets have not been replaced? Where do they usually leak from? I remember when I took the car in to have them replaced, I think they only replaced the upper, and not the lower. I checked the over flow tank, and didn't see oil mixing with the antifreeze, but makes me wonder why i get that rattle from the engine from light throttle. I have found oil leakage where the drain is on the oil pan. I started to keep it clean and keep a close eye on it. I am actually losing oil from the side of the pan. I either think the oil pump is leaking, or the lower gaskets are. here are some Pics I took http://home.comcast.net/~dodge1063/car/pump.jpg[/img] This is where it looks to be coming from because its looks like oil has dripped all the way down towards the back to the side of the oil pan. http://home.comcast.net/~dodge1063/car/side.jpg[/img] This is just an image to show what I mean when I say the "side" of the oil pan. http://home.comcast.net/~dodge1063/car/leak.jpg[/img] This is why I ask about the lower gaskets. I wasn't sure if the car was telling me it was leaking from the lowers or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 How do you tell if the Lower intake gaskets have not been replaced? look at the mating surface. you will see the edge of the gasket. If that gasket edge you can touch is HARD PLASTIC, you have either an ORIGINAL, or an INFERIOR replacement gasket. If that gasket edge is rubbery you have the PERMA-DRY gaskets, which also have three "football" shaped recesses on the edge. If the gasket is plastic, do yourself a favor... CHANGE THEM. While you are at it... the typical 3100 oil leak is the oil drive gear. use a flashlight and look below the throttle body area for a round cap about 2 inches wide. look for wet oil around it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutty Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 The bottom pic you show where you can see the crack pulley and a/c compressor. Looks to me like the lower motor mount went bad, since they are gel filled and seem to explode when they go bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 p.s. in the first pic you are just off the edge of the oil drive gear... confirming it has failed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodgethis Posted December 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 p.s. in the first pic you are just off the edge of the oil drive gear... confirming it has failed. Thanks Crazy K That's what I was looking for, I would take on the challenge myself but didn't realize you have to take off the plenum and throttle body just to get at the oil drive pump. I'll give it some thought on what I am going to do about it. The bottom pic you show where you can see the crack pulley and a/c compressor. Looks to me like the lower motor mount went bad, since they are gel filled and seem to explode when they go bad. Hey cutty thanks for the info on the mount. I didn't know they were gel filled. I'll look up some info on the site to see if i can replace it myself. If you have already done it on your W, do you have any tips? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutty Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 here you go! http://www.w-body.com/forum/index.php?topic=68747.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodgethis Posted December 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 I called around to see how much it would set me back to change out the oil pump drive seal. I found out that the shop I called had to replace the upper manifold gasekt to get at the oil pump drive. I didn't think on 3100 that was necessary, unless the UIM, and LIM were needing it? I got a quote of $300.00. I work two jobs and constantly on the go. I don't have the time to do this myself. I thought it was weird though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88red4cyl Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 Have you tried calling the dealership? Back in march I had the LIM and oil pump drive o-ring replaced for ~$575... I have heard of ways to get at the pump drive without removing the UIM, but a shop is just going to pop the UIM off since it makes the job tons easier... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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