Shifting out of park issues - Parking Pawl Removed!!!

[xtremerevolution]

This is on the 95 Regal.

 

It first started a while back; probably 3-4 months. I would start up the car, put it in reverse, and it would engage reverse perfectly fine. However, it would make a tapping vibrating noise that you could feel in the shifter, as if something was rubbing. The vibrating would increase the faster you went. This would be only in reverse, but Reverse would engage just fine.

 

Before I left for Chicago, I changed 1 gallon of the transmission fluid. I used a pump to suck out the old fluid through the dipstick tube, and did the same in reverse to get a gallon back in. As of now, after driving around for an hour, the level in park is about 1/4" above the full level.

 

My problem is now shifting in both drive and reverse, but moreso in reverse. If I move the shifter into reverse, it doesn't do anything. The torque converter engages, so you cannot free rev the engine anymore, but you can hit the throttle all you want and the car doesn't move. It feels as though the car is in park with the torque converter engaged. Once this happens, you can shift slowly down into Drive, and the exact same thing happens. The car doesn't move.

 

To fix this problem, I would run the shifter up and down from Park to 1 very quickly, then back into Drive, and the transmission would engage 1st gear no problem and I could drive off. I used to be able to do this same thing for reverse, but not anymore. Now, I can run the shifter up and down all I want, but reverse won't engage. I spent 15 minutes trying to figure out how to get my car to engage reverse, and this is the only method that now works:

 

I have to run the shifter up and down from P to 1 a few times very quickly, then while holding down the button on the shifter, I have to squeeze the shifter between Reverse and Neutral and hold it somewhere midway there. I have to play with the position a bit, and eventually I'll get the car to engage reverse. However, I have to hold it there, because the moment I let it slip back into reverse, the transmission locks up as if it was in park. If I'm moving fast enough, this will put a serious load on the engine and transmission mounts as it would be the equivalent of dropping your car into Park.

 

Any ideas? I have a feeling I soon won't be able to back the car out of a parking lot.

 

Aside from this, the car shifts perfectly fine, although it takes a couple of minutes every morning before TCC will engage while cruising on the highway. Not sure why that's happening, but this problem is a bit more critical.

[slick]

Looks like you'll be soon pulling through parking spots so you can pull forward.

[BXX]

Time for a new trans..

[xtremerevolution]

Time for a new trans..

 

Trans was rebuilt at 148k. It currently has 213,005 miles as of now. Your reply doesn't help me at all. It shifts FINE once its in gear. It gets in gear fine, if you play with the shifter. The problem seems to be somewhere in the shifter position. I can repeatedly get it to shift into Reverse using the method I just described. It doesn't slip between shifts fall out of gear, have any other unusual symptoms.

 

Would dumping some seafoam in there and draining the transmission do anything?

[RobertISaar]

bad PNP sensor?

 

and feel free to send me a datalog. the TCC lock sounds normal, the ECU waits until the coolant or trans temp reaches a certain point before it will allow lockup...

[BXX]

The PNP switch wont matter, when I did my OBD2 swap I was able to select gears fine without the switch even being bolted into place. It should still go into gear.

[RobertISaar]

The PNP switch wont matter' date=' when I did my OBD2 swap I was able to select gears fine without the switch even being bolted into place. It should still go into gear.

[/quote']

 

you're not dealing with the 95 3800 S1 PCM though... it could have algorithm in it telling the tranny to refuse to shift properly.

[xtremerevolution]

How do I record that datalog?

[BXX]

The PNP switch wont matter' date=' when I did my OBD2 swap I was able to select gears fine without the switch even being bolted into place. It should still go into gear.

[/quote']

 

you're not dealing with the 95 3800 S1 PCM though... it could have algorithm in it telling the tranny to refuse to shift properly.

 

3x00 pcms are considered to be 3800 based.

[xtremerevolution]

Its still obd1.5. I'd like more useful responses, not "time for a new transmission." I'm not an idiot. The problem is with the shifter mechanism somewhere.

[slick]

If you are positive it's in the shifter, then pull it all apart, and clean out the gunk. Not only at the shifter, but in the engine bay as well.

 

The TCC not engaging is probably the temperature switch, as mentioned above. Below a certain temperature, it should not engage.

 

However, if the above cleaning and re-lubrication does not fix it (are these cables adjustable?), then I'd start looking into options for a replacement trans.

[1990lumina]

Time for a new trans..

 

Trans was rebuilt at 148k. It currently has 213' date='005 miles as of now. Your reply doesn't help me at all. It shifts FINE once its in gear. It gets in gear fine, if you play with the shifter. The problem seems to be somewhere in the shifter position. I can repeatedly get it to shift into Reverse using the method I just described. It doesn't slip between shifts fall out of gear, have any other unusual symptoms.

 

Would dumping some seafoam in there and draining the transmission do anything?

[/quote']

 

I'd check the adjustment for the shifter cable. Counds like it is slipping or something and the transmission selector (on the case) isn't being enaged into the correct position for the gear you want.

 

Either that or after all the abuse you've given this car it is finally biting you in the ass. My Lumina slips in reverse - bands are fucked. I just take a run at curbs. This method has worked for 5 years now.

[xtremerevolution]

If you are positive it's in the shifter, then pull it all apart, and clean out the gunk. Not only at the shifter, but in the engine bay as well.

 

The TCC not engaging is probably the temperature switch, as mentioned above. Below a certain temperature, it should not engage.

 

However, if the above cleaning and re-lubrication does not fix it (are these cables adjustable?), then I'd start looking into options for a replacement trans.

 

It just feels like there's got to be something else simple wrong with it. It will be a while before I just start looking for a new trans.

 

Time for a new trans..

 

Trans was rebuilt at 148k. It currently has 213' date='005 miles as of now. Your reply doesn't help me at all. It shifts FINE once its in gear. It gets in gear fine, if you play with the shifter. The problem seems to be somewhere in the shifter position. I can repeatedly get it to shift into Reverse using the method I just described. It doesn't slip between shifts fall out of gear, have any other unusual symptoms.

 

Would dumping some seafoam in there and draining the transmission do anything?

[/quote']

 

I'd check the adjustment for the shifter cable. Counds like it is slipping or something and the transmission selector (on the case) isn't being enaged into the correct position for the gear you want.

 

Either that or after all the abuse you've given this car it is finally biting you in the ass. My Lumina slips in reverse - bands are fucked. I just take a run at curbs. This method has worked for 5 years now.

 

The thing is, I don't abuse it while shifting gears. I abuse the engine while its in gear, and as I mentioned, absolutely none of the gears are slipping. Everything shifts fine once its in gear. Getting it in gear is the only problem.

 

It should be painfully obvious that if I can get into park from any gear under any throttle position and that I can get through all 4 gears once I'm in 1st gear, and that I can drive all day long in reverse once I wiggle the shifter in the correct position, that the problem is not a serious internal transmission problem. It should be worth noting that these problems only got worse as that vibrating in the shifter while in reverse got worse.

 

Here's another detail, if you can picture this.

 

 

The positions for shifting go as follows:

 

P R N D 3 2 1.

 

2 weeks ago, I would get in the car and shift from P into R. As I backed up, I would hear that ticking noise and feel the vibration in the shifter, UNLESS, I pushed the shifter forward toward P without actually pushing down the button to shift into P. If I pushed forward on the shifter, the vibration would go away, but if I let go, it would continue. Is it simply a coincidence that the this problem got worse as the ticking noise got worse, until one day it went away completely and I couldn't shift properly anymore?

 

I don't know the mechanisms well enough to know where to start, save for the shifter cable.

[1990lumina]

I don't know how the shifter cable clips onto our transmissions but most GM cars have adjustments where the transmission shifter cable clips t othe transmission. This adjuster is just plastic. I'd say your's in broken or slipping in between gear shifts. While ramming the shifter back and forth it's probably knocking that adjustera round to the correct spot.

[xtremerevolution]

I don't know how the shifter cable clips onto our transmissions but most GM cars have adjustments where the transmission shifter cable clips t othe transmission. This adjuster is just plastic. I'd say your's in broken or slipping in between gear shifts. While ramming the shifter back and forth it's probably knocking that adjustera round to the correct spot.

 

I actually checked and the shifter cable is intact and its shifting the transmission knob properly. When you shift from park into drive, you hear the torque converter engage and you feel the RPMs drop for a second as you're no longer in neutral.

 

Honestly, it really sounds like the park transmission lock (or whatever its called) is not disengaging, rather than the gears not engaging. When you shift into any gear, you can hear the transmission engaging something, and for a second you can feel the car nudge in that direction. In layman's terms, it feels exactly like your shifter is in Park, while its in gear.

 

Damn, where's Ken when you need him?

 

Can any of this be caused by an overfilled transmission?

[RobertISaar]

andrei: it's refered to as a parking pawl for recording, press the little red button near the top of tunerpro, then send me the ADL, or if you are using V5, the XDL. any more instruction on that and we'll deal with it out of the thread.

 

bob: the 94-95 LQ1 setup is actually VERY similar to the 3800 stuff up to 95, so i'm not surprised if GM merged the 60 and 90 V6 stuff together.

 

and now that i think about it more, i'm thinking it has to be the shifter linkage somewhere. the difference in results just from changing the way you shift it tells me that.

[Crazy K]

Damn, where's Ken when you need him?

 

HAI!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

don't you have a transmission warranty?

 

 

It sounds like you have low fluid line pressure. Maybe your filter is clogged, or the transmission pump has become weak. What happens is that the pump casing is scored or the seal has torn. This prevents the line pressure necessary to make the valves and check balls in the channels affected by the shifter operate and locate to allow any gear to fully apply.

 

my 91 vert was like this. the tranny would not engage until either:

1 car was run until engine was warm.

2 vehicle was push started (either direction) Once it moved a little then it would kick and go.

3 one wheel was raised and car placed in gear. The car would then operate once lowered.

 

 

 

simple fix:

Time for a pan drop and see how much death and destruction awaits you. You *might* be able to just stick a new tranny filter on and fresh fluid and go. Worth the cost to try, since it isn't slipping yet...

 

complex fix:

another rebuild time

[xtremerevolution]

Is it just a coincidence that this all started happening as the weather started cooling down?

 

What parts do I need to order to do the job?

[1990lumina]

Is it just a coincidence that this all started happening as the weather started cooling down?

 

What parts do I need to order to do the job?

 

When it gets colder everything is slower to build pressure and move - if something is indeed wrong cold with amplify it.

 

Brand new Aveo automatics if started @ -40º on our lot and immediately put in drive will move for 10 feet or so then just sit and rev lol...have to let it sit and warm up a bit before trying to move it.

[xtremerevolution]

What doesn't make sense is that the problem continues when the engine warms up.

 

And ken, the transmission was shifting 100% perfectly fine this whole time. No other symptoms whatsoever, and if anyone would notice something strange, it would be me. It may help that its cold out and I have a beefy transmission cooler connected, and that I haven't driven it much in the last 2 weeks.

[Crazy K]

What doesn't make sense is that the problem continues when the engine warms up.

clarify??? do you mean the shuddering? even if the engine is warmed up, is the transmission warmed up?

 

 

 

try a transmission pan drop and filter and fluid change.

 

 

also, is it still warrantied???

 

Do you have reverse after the engine has reached full operating temp???

 

 

 

As on my 91... The way it works is that it doesn't go until it does, but once it does the symptoms are completely gone until it has cooled down... except I have a bad 3rd gear clutch pack, which yours does not.

[xtremerevolution]

The trans work is out of warranty. No shuddering, and the engine and trans are hot. The trans cooler is hot to the touch, but the same issues with not being able to get out of park persist. Ill try again in the morning when its cold to see what happens.

 

Ill drop the pan next week either way. What parts and gaskets do I need?

[RobertISaar]

The trans work is out of warranty. No shuddering, and the engine and trans are hot. The trans cooler is hot to the touch, but the same issues with not being able to get out of park persist. Ill try again in the morning when its cold to see what happens.

 

Ill drop the pan next week either way. What parts and gaskets do I need?

 

for just the pan: torque wrench, and like a 8-10mm socket... i ALWAYS replace the trans pan gasket.

[GOT2B GM]

A FULL trans rebuild is VERY expensive.

 

They usually do clutches and a torque convertor, a o-ring and a reseal kit, along with any other items (drum, sprags, springs etc) that are showing wear.

 

Not EVERYTHING is replaced. Only the parts that someone made the judgement call on that "need replacing"

 

I'm not saying it's not in the shifter linkage, hopefully it is.

 

What I want you to realize is that just because its "rebuilt" , doesn't mean you can rule out the trans 60+ thousand miles later.

 

Theres a reason shops only put a 1 year or x,000 mile warranty (which ever comes first) on transmissions.

 

 

 

Trust me , I rebuilt the trans in my old white 93 Z34 twice. Once at 170,000 km, and again at 235,000 km. The second time was a totally different list of parts that were worn.

[xtremerevolution]

What exactly is the shifter linkage?