SigEpCutlass Posted December 1, 2009 Report Share Posted December 1, 2009 Guys I'm very short on time to work on the cutlass. For those of you who have done this in the past, I need your best advice/suggestions on how I can do this as quickly and painlessly as possible. I have a "large" starter that I acquired from Brian P that is waiting to be installed. I have to do the front brakes on my Wife's Mazda, and a fuel filter on the Subaru this weekend, so I need to do this tonight or tomorrow. When I took a quick look under the cutlass last night it appears that I am either going to have to bend or disconnect some lines (assuming A/C or coolant) to get the old starter out and the new one in, but I'm open any and all suggestions. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White93z34 Posted December 1, 2009 Report Share Posted December 1, 2009 on a 3100. it would probably be easiest if you removed the oil filter, and then removed that little drip tray under it. unhook the battery, undo the electrical connections. 8mm for starter engage and I *think* 13mm for the battery cables 2 15mm bolts hold it in, for the one bolt (which one I forget) you may need a assortment of extensions and a regular socket (not the deep ones) to get easy access to it . after that it should come out fairly painlessly If I got anything wrong, I'm sure one of the 3x00 guys will correct me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted December 1, 2009 Report Share Posted December 1, 2009 i never needed to pull the filter or drip tray to do mine... and i did it in about 10*F weather in maybe 20 minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5speedz34 Posted December 1, 2009 Report Share Posted December 1, 2009 As for the lines.....since it's the big one you might need to swivel the starter to maneuver it around the AC lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SigEpCutlass Posted December 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2009 on a 3100. it would probably be easiest if you removed the oil filter, and then removed that little drip tray under it. unhook the battery, undo the electrical connections. 8mm for starter engage and I *think* 13mm for the battery cables 2 15mm bolts hold it in, for the one bolt (which one I forget) you may need a assortment of extensions and a regular socket (not the deep ones) to get easy access to it . after that it should come out fairly painlessly If I got anything wrong, I'm sure one of the 3x00 guys will correct me Thanks for the heads up on the sockets Chris. It's always easier if you have all your sockets out to get something done without having to figure out what is what. As for the lines.....since it's the big one you might need to swivel the starter to maneuver it around the AC lines. That's what I was thinking I would need to do, but after looking at the new starter I'm not sure it'll fit without doing something about one of the lines. If anyone else has any advice or ideas, please let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venom Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 I changed out the starter on my old cs in less than 10 minutes............... Of course I also had the advantage of using the lift at work to change it LOL. But yes very easy. 15mm socket with at least a 12" extension and 8/13mm for the cables. Just make sure you disconnect the battery unless you like your wrenches to have burn marks on them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOT2B GM Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 I pulled a fullsize starter out of my friend Ryan's 96 GP with a 3100, and besides the flywheel cover, nothing needs to come out of the bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SigEpCutlass Posted December 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 I ended up taking care of the Subaru and the Mazda first instead of the Cutlass. I started late yesterday afternoon and it took me about 3 hrs to get the old starter out and put the new one in. It's not a bad job, but when you have to use PBblaster on just about every single bolt from the original starter, it adds up. Not to mention, one of the bolts seized completely on an old terminal of the starter. Hello hacksaw. I cut the son of a bitch off to get my wires back Problem is now the starter won't work. It tried to turn the engine over originally, but now it won't. All I hear when I turn the key now is a fuel pump. No clicking...just silence. On the old starter there were 3 terminals, on the new one there is 4. Did I possibly kill the starter by wiring up only the 3 terminals in the manner they were before, and putting just a nut on the 4th? If I need to put wire up the 4th terminal, what needs to go there? I took a picture late last night, but I forgot the camera at home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SigEpCutlass Posted December 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 Anyone know about the differences in the 3 terminal starter versus the 4 terminal starter? Anyone? Did I kill it by wiring it up like the 3 terminal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 ??? there is probably supposed to be a jumper wire to make it work..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SigEpCutlass Posted December 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 ??? there is probably supposed to be a jumper wire to make it work..... I think you are referring to a thin gauge wire which was attached by itself to a single small terminal on the starter? I reattached that to the same terminal it was previously attached to. Going from memory, there were 3 negative cables that were grounded on the engine block, and two positive cables attached to the starter itself on the same terminal. Would be good if I had that picture I took last night, but does that sound about right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 ??? there is probably supposed to be a jumper wire to make it work..... I think you are referring to a thin gauge wire which was attached by itself to a single small terminal on the starter? I reattached that to the same terminal it was previously attached to. Going from memory, there were 3 negative cables that were grounded on the engine block, and two positive cables attached to the starter itself on the same terminal. Would be good if I had that picture I took last night, but does that sound about right? pics are a must.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SigEpCutlass Posted December 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 ??? there is probably supposed to be a jumper wire to make it work..... I think you are referring to a thin gauge wire which was attached by itself to a single small terminal on the starter? I reattached that to the same terminal it was previously attached to. Going from memory, there were 3 negative cables that were grounded on the engine block, and two positive cables attached to the starter itself on the same terminal. Would be good if I had that picture I took last night, but does that sound about right? pics are a must.... Ok i'll take pictures when I get home today. Until then, if anyone has any ideas, keep them coming. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SigEpCutlass Posted December 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 OK - here's the pics I promised. Old starter with sawed off terminal New starter installed: Plus a video...(may cause motion sickness)... http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v346/Sigep37/Starter/?action=view¤t=IMG_0168.flv Thoughts??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SigEpCutlass Posted December 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 So nobody knows if I didn't wire it up correctly, or why my old starter (the original from the factory) had 3 terminals instead of 4 on the "new" one I acquired from Brian P? I need to get this car out of the garage today with this snow storm coming... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White93z34 Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 that third terminal at the bottom is just a different way of connecting the starter to the solenoid that whoever (re?)manufactured the starter used. maybe try connecting the starter engage wire to the other small terminal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SigEpCutlass Posted December 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 that third terminal at the bottom is just a different way of connecting the starter to the solenoid that whoever (re?)manufactured the starter used. maybe try connecting the starter engage wire to the other small terminal? Thanks for responding Chris. I was going to try using that other terminal this evening. What troubles me is that the first few times I turned the key right after I installed it the starter tried to turn the engine over, but now it doesn't even try at all. The only noise after I turn the key is the fuel pump. That's why I'm concerned. Any other suggestions or ideas would be welcome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOT2B GM Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 Possible that the starter is doa? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White93z34 Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 if you feel brave, pull it back out, get a set of jumper cables. put starter on the floor put the cables on a battery (in or out of a car). put the ground to a clean spot on the starter housing, and put the positive to the positive terminal and then either use the jumper cable or another jumper wire to apply power to the engage post and see what happens. make sure you have your foot on top of the starter or it held down in a vice, if it starts it will move all over unsecured. it is a crude but effective way of testing a starter. also make sure all your connections are good, clean and tight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SigEpCutlass Posted December 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 Possible that the starter is doa? It is used, but it'd suck if it died already. I got it from Brian P for $25, but he's a good guy and wouldn't have sold me something that he knew was broken. if you feel brave, pull it back out, get a set of jumper cables. put starter on the floor put the cables on a battery (in or out of a car). put the ground to a clean spot on the starter housing, and put the positive to the positive terminal and then either use the jumper cable or another jumper wire to apply power to the engage post and see what happens. make sure you have your foot on top of the starter or it held down in a vice, if it starts it will move all over unsecured. it is a crude but effective way of testing a starter. also make sure all your connections are good, clean and tight. I think if I take it back out (which would be easy now that I put anti-seize on the bolts), I'd rather just take it to AZ to get tested for free. If it snows like they're saying it will here today & tonight, I may just have to test it that way. Thanks for that info Chris. The last thing I need is a starter flying around the garage like crazy though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 it looks correct to me.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 Yeah the way it's installed looks like the way it's supposed to be. Are any of the terminals loose? Are you getting +12V, none of the fusible links in the wiring are bad? This has me baffled, that's for sure. I don't remember how long I ran this starter but it was for at least a few months to a year until I got the 3400 unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SigEpCutlass Posted December 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Well she's all fixed up. Before I took the starter out again to inspect, I checked all terminals and they were tight. I did what Chris suggested to test the starter...man that was an interesting experience. If I didn't have my foot on the starter...it definitely would have flown somewhere. When I took the starter out I cleaned up EVERYTHING. I cleaned up any and all contact points as clean as they could be, and tightened all connections to be as tight as they could be. That seems to have done the trick. None of the contacts were filthy by any means, but the only thing I wired up differently was the order of the grounding wires. Weird things happen sometimes. Thanks to everyone for your assistance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White93z34 Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 glad to see you got it sorted out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SigEpCutlass Posted December 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 glad to see you got it sorted out! Thanks for the help Chris. I never would have thought to test the starter with jumper cables had you not mentioned it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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