Rules of Conduct, Posting Practices, all members must read!

[Jeff M]

In an effort by the Moderators and Site Administrator to make this TGP Talk Forum a more enjoyable and productive place to use, Rules of Conduct and Posting Practices have been developed and approved. This is required reading for all Members or those wanting to become a Member.

 

Thanks,

Moderators and Site Administrator

[Jeff M]

Sorry Kenny I had to move this but I wanted to have any discussions regarding the Rules and Practices not contained in the actual “Rule Book†so to say. That is also why I posted a separate Topic so that people could ask for clarifications.

 

So to answer your question, I would also like to take this time and elaborate more so on there being all of these Rules and Suggested Posting Practices, so thanks for asking. The key reasons for the Rules and Posting Practices are based on experiences learned from noting since 1995 many very large Internet Discussion Groups, those typically being called; Message Boards, Mailing Lists, Talk Forums and etc All the best ones, that typically have a few thousand members, have evolved out of necessity more rapidly to construct some form of rulings governing Member Conduct, and to your question; Topic Content such as product dissecting and disassembly. Product dissecting and disassembly had 3 main causes for big problems on these groups that brought about the same decision that has been made here by all not just one. The first is when an individual who had a skill set to complete an idea/product that others were interested in that was then sold to other individuals. The second one was a product from an actual company such as Applied Technologies and Research/ATR. And last is a group of individuals who designed and constructed an idea/product, and the best most recent example I can give on this is the worst; the DIY-Wide-Band o2 project. This DIY-WB project was the culmination of some excellent guys (friends of mine as well, including Dave Zug) with a matched diversity in skills for this sort of project and who worked long and hard to design and offer a very affordable version of a Wide Band o2 display system. Their final work was stolen by a company and made into a product and sold in large quantities/big profit. This happened even though they had done far more than this board has in its Rules of Conduct to ward off such an attack or activity. It was a very sad day when that happened and you never seen such justifiable outrage from those contributors and board members resulting from that attack. The same can befall the single individual as well as an actual company should someone detail out enough (dissect and dissemble) or just offer products not made by the original designer. ATR as well as Rinda Technologies both had such problems when activities on a few boards dissected some of their products and shown how someone could copy and make their own kits or programs. Obviously those companies have lawyers to address such acts against owned intellectual properties, the single individual and groups of individuals (WB guys) have no recourse (though they do if they so desire to pursue it). Individuals and groups are also hit harder since they cannot market enough of a product to offset such a hit as a large company can, large companies have enough gross sales to somewhat offset those few who would bypass paying for their products. These acts towards all 3 examples degrade the stature of a Internet Discussion Group and opens the door for more of the same low-balling of individuals, which both has happened in the past. Bottom line too is if people cannot get along on the board then take it to a PM, the open forum is not a show place for disrespect or confrontations, and this once again is the most common rule on many good Internet Discussion Groups!

 

So, there is a LOT behind the reasons for the Rules and Conduct, it was not based on brash thinking or one man, and if someone else out there feels this is unfair then so be it, no one is holding their keyboard away from them doing this elsewhere, but it will not be allowed on this Talk Forum, PontiacJeff’s Cold Air Intake or others.

 

(After reviewing this, I see I became very firm and factual, but Kenny these words are NOT directed soley to you, I too must adhere to these practices!)

 

Jeff M

[skalor]

This "Unauthorized product dissecting and disassembly will not be tolerated" is only referring to aftermarket chip(i.e. Drivibilty/TopGun series) and not referring to GMs chips, right??

 

I know I wanted to start to examine GM's code and was hoping to discuss it in detail if possible on this board.

[Guest TurboSedan]

This "Unauthorized product dissecting and disassembly will not be tolerated" is only referring to aftermarket chip(i.e. Drivibilty/TopGun series) and not referring to GMs chips, right??

 

I know I wanted to start to examine GM's code and was hoping to discuss it in detail if possible on this board.

 

i agree. Jeff, i know this is a touchy subject and i don't want to continue any past arguements, but this is *sounding* ALOT like you just want to monopolize 'your' product and keep any talk of DIY chip engineering out of the forums. it's not that we don't want to buy your stuff, some just don't have the money, some have 5-speeds and HAVE to make thier own (or both like me), etc. i don't like the sounds of this at all...... if the thread becomes a fight or pissing match THEN a moderator should lock it. i think alot of us here WANT very much to learn how to understand code and modify it to work on their own application - not sell xxx amount of modified GM AZRC chips, cut into your sales, and make profit from it (like, um...you do). this is not to say i'm bashing your product at all....we all know you have alot of great equiptment and alot of time testing your chips before you would ever sell them. we can take responsibility into our own hands. if we blow the engine in the process of modifying/testing chips, then that's our own fault.

 

so yes - i think discussion of the GM AZRC chip and learning the code, modifying it (say, to work w/a 5-speed) should absoulutely be tolerated...we are w-body freaks and we are here to learn everything we can about our cars. hardly any of us know about this subject yet and that is just another reason why it SHOULD be discussed. too bad Mick couldn't be a little more soft spoken and become a moderator too! well i for one won't be reading the 'Rules of Conduct' since 1. i'm already a member and have been since the first week this forum has been up (and the mailing list before it), and 2. why should i anyway? the last thing i want to get into is a flame war or pissing match; and i certainly would never threaten anyone here.

joshua

 

NOTE: Edited for grammar.

[Jeff M]

Malibuolds, Skalor, Kenny thanks for your very well written questions, it proves that discussions can be done on this board in a manner that deals with the facts and provides information without going off/getting too personal and creating a flame, its not that hard to do, and everyone is much more likely to reply/contribute if posts are done this way.

 

To answer your questions and for others, discussion of the inner workings of, and dealings with GM chips we already have in our cars, or can buy from GM and work on is as open a ground on this board as on many boards that discuss OEM chip tuning and such, the key here is a chip that we have or can own that we work from. When that changes is I believe best explained in the next example, and this example will allow everyone to gain an appreciation for this Rule, it CAN serve you!! Put yourself in the shoes of someone who decides to take the challenge to research a turbo upgrade, using your skills to determine the proper size compressor and turbine wheels, A/R ratio, ball bearings or not, water cooled or not, and physical fitment into the TGP engine bay, and then have a few custom sized turbos made up, testing each and looking for the best one suited to work with this engine, and you spent many more hours testing this final turbo with the engine and its fueling system, intercooler, ignition to see what areas might need to be address, making and testing again changes to any of those areas and basically working out a well thought-out “kit†that would go along with the properly running of that turbo (bigger intercooler and how to fit one, bigger injectors/fuel pump and the changes to make those work, etc), many details. If after all the time and money you spent doing this you decide to share with others, at this point, and this is crucial but VERY easy to understand, you decide to give the info away for free, that is “your†right as its “your†work to decided what to do with it. BUT, if you feel all your time and investment is worth money to you and you decide to offer it as a kit for TGP owners to buy, that then is the break point of whether a product/specific turbo kit example, is discussed or not. It is not too difficult to see that that “turbo kit†is (somewhat) nothing more than a larger turbo, that anyone can do to their TGP, but that does not mean the guy in these shoes can be bashed for his idea or for charging money for it. Anyone wanting to put a bigger turbo on their TGP is free territory, to discuss as well, BUT, when someone decides to dissect, discuss/reveal what is in that “turbo kit†that is where things STOP on this board, and if you are still in those shoes of the one who went to all this trouble, I believe you will see and appreciate that fact/Rule. AND to address the confusion of a product or idea GM/McLaren has developed on your car, chip or otherwise, if your car is already turbo’d/all setup with 2 bar map, water and oil lines for that turbo, intercooler and etc, then your dang right you can change that turbo and not violate GM’s/McLaren’s efforts-R&D whatever in setting it up for forced induction. Even like the guy with the shoes above who decides to make a “turbo-kit†and offers it or sells it, go for it as do many companies. Now that I completed that example, it makes me laugh, I just did all that work to a turbo upgrade “kit†for the TGPs/TSTE that I started back 2 years ago (before there were discussions of chips and who owns them, how they can be used/borrowed), but based on the final cost of the upgraded turbo, I decided back in 2001 that if I were to charge for my time to come up with this turbo, that next final cost would be too much for the masses who want turbo upgrades. I want to see this get out there (unless someone beats me to it, anyone??? No one is stopping you ;-) ) so when I release it, it will be fully disclosed/dissected, but that is my call, the guy now wearing those shoes, or maybe you, and at that point if you are going to sell a “turbo-kit†or anything else on this Forum, will be glad there are rules here to protect your hard work! Maybe that is why I am the only one offering products, I like the extra challenges it has brought

 

As for the acclaimed use of the mystic AZRC chip, this is nothing more than another chip you can buy from GM and work with, there are others that are different as well. The AZRC addressed some driveability issues inherent with the stock chip, but is nothing more than that, and when someone tests it, will find it adds its list of problems too, but it will take a few different TGPs to discover all the problems it causes so that those may be addressed (one is letting your foot off the gas at 55 mph and the engine/chip keeps going, there are other problems to fix IF you so like this chip). NOT all TGPs will like this chip, the changes from the production AZRC over a stock chip were only tested on one TGP (Turbo STE actually, I know the guy/car and company that did this), so though I say don’t get too excited about this version of GM’s chip, that does NOT stop you from getting and using it, does it!

 

AGAIN, THANKS to the board for listening and in the great improvements in conduct, this board and any needs to have an even keel, and level of respect shared for it to survive and prosper 8) .

Jeff M

[Jeff M]

Since these points are very good ones to make, I have updated the Rules and Posting Practices to address those.

 

Jeff M

[skalor]

Jeff M,

I can see where your coming from with repect to chip tuning/custom calibration for specific upgrades(i.e. turbo upgrade, cam, heads). As a person I value my own work on my car as much as anyone else, and I understand that many many hours can/will be spent dialing in a new setup. I can see no fault in your logic for wanting $$ for all the hours you put tuning/making your chips. In fact, I would think you were off your rocker if you didn't want $$. The point I'm trying to make is that some of us want to know how the TGP code works so that we can tune our own cars. Even you've said yourself that your chips are not tuned for specific TGP engines(as every TGP engine is different, as are every engines). 8)

[TGPilot]

Enough said. I do whatever to a car for the love of the car. If I find something or notice something that will help others with the same car...I share it with them at no fee to them. You (Jeff) have put alot of time and research into the TGP so yeah...if you can make money by all means put some cash in your pocket. 8)

[Jeff M]

Jeff M,

I can see where your coming from with repect to chip tuning/custom calibration for specific upgrades(i.e. turbo upgrade, cam, heads). As a person I value my own work on my car as much as anyone else, and I understand that many many hours can/will be spent dialing in a new setup. I can see no fault in your logic for wanting $$ for all the hours you put tuning/making your chips. In fact, I would think you were off your rocker if you didn't want $$. The point I'm trying to make is that some of us want to know how the TGP code works so that we can tune our own cars. Even you've said yourself that your chips are not tuned for specific TGP engines(as every TGP engine is different, as are every engines). 8)

 

Great, I really did not think it was that hard to understand. When you make rules there are always interpretations but we must have rules and laws when people start ignoring common sense and in treating others with respect. If everyone on our roads drove at a reasonable speed, then there would be no reason for a Speed Limit Sign, but we all know it only takes a few to make that Speed Limit Sign a nessesity, and someone to monitor your speed. Since the “TGP chip†and its "code" is “GM’s†then hack away, ask all the questions you like, you for sure sound like someone who has the background and determination to be successful. As for me charging for my chips, I agree too that at a point one should get compensation for his efforts, if was very up-front of someone who posted here a chip for his manual TGP was going to be $375, and another custom chip was $400, its not that uncommon of cost for custom chips, but if there were as many TGPs as there were Cameros and Firebirds, then the cost to develop chips could be spread out a lot further reducing the cost to buy one.

[topless94style]

My real name is Shane. And i understand exactly where you are coming from. Except, i just dont agree with the fact that you cant tear something down you bought from someone like you and then have someone explain how it works, fix it, mod it for others to use. Now you are right that i havent done this before but i have tried my best to step into those shoes. Ill just leave it at that i dont agree and go with the rules because thats how the law is too. I am not offeneded i just thought my opinion should be heard also. One more thing, although there are patents, other companies are becoming new and creating their own products similar to others. This is called a monopolistic economy. Many people producing essentially the same product but with little to no differences in reality, but marketing them so the seem different. As i see it, someone changing your chip then making their own is just like that. But again thats my opinion and since i have little to know controll over rules i will not cause any more trouble.

[Jeff M]

My real name is Shane. And i understand exactly where you are coming from. Except, i just dont agree with the fact that you cant tear something down you bought from someone like you and then have someone explain how it works, fix it, mod it for others to use. Now you are right that i havent done this before but i have tried my best to step into those shoes. Ill just leave it at that i dont agree and go with the rules because thats how the law is too. I am not offeneded i just thought my opinion should be heard also. One more thing, although there are patents, other companies are becoming new and creating their own products similar to others. This is called a monopolistic economy. Many people producing essentially the same product but with little to no differences in reality, but marketing them so the seem different. As i see it, someone changing your chip then making their own is just like that. But again thats my opinion and since i have little to know controll over rules i will not cause any more trouble.

 

Shane, thanks for making an effort and succeeding at absorbing this posting, not easy and I knew there would be a lot of talks till things were better understood, and some differences in opinions were had. I am with you there as to being able to hack/understand what you bought, and tune it for yourself, for different mods you did or whatever, no one can stop that or cares to, but when a lot of the same chip work you bought is still contained in what you share with others, well, that is where a distinct level or swiping comes into play, that makes sense now I believe for those who are willing like yourself to not be bothered by it. As for the damage that was done to the Wide-Band 02 efforts, everything that could be done was done to try and protect it (aside from getting it patented BUT a Wide Band o2 system already existed, for a lot more money but you can’t paten it just because its cheaper!) but still allow it for those DIY types, the fact that they did not get it patented should not be a slap in the face when it got stolen, they were being generous to say the least when they offered it, and that is the reward they get, and others rubbing it in?, sad.

 

Now you can see the outcome that resulted from this sort of product/idea, and now the guys who did this WB, and others who have great stuff to offer people, are going to just keep it to themselves from now on, oh well for encouraging and supporting help on discussion groups when it leads to something like this!

 

Jeff M

[Chris A]

I'm almost afraid to, but here goes my .02.

 

Yes this rule is one that was going to be controversial. However, there was a distinct need for it. There have been many problems with bad posts stemming from someone discussing anothers product. Yes these typcially involve Jeff Ms products because he is one of the VERY FEW offering products for the TGP. And while the argument can be made that Jeff dissected someone elses work, it was not done on this forum and will not be tolerated in the future. If someone offering a product does not approve of the manner in which the inner workings of or the manufacturing of their product then they have the disclosed right to stop it on this forum. This does not extend to feedback and reviews of a product or how a product performs as this kind of feedback is essential to developing better products and helping others with their decisions.

 

The answer for a thread gone bad isn't to lock it down. We need to change the atmosphere to try and avoid these. Moderators are not just gate closers. We (as I am on another board) need to help direct conversation so that it is constructive and beneficial. Even if its saying something you don't like about something its still constructive. I have no problem with knowing how something works. And yes patents do work. But again, its a small community. The problem comes when we tear away at something "oh his cold air kit is just a couple of 90's and a few connectors thats easy" Well if its so easy then why do so many people desire to have a nice cold air setup but no one has come up with one?

 

If you want to describe something you did (hey I used a coolant bottle out of a newer car and freed up alot of room!), or offer suggestions on someones product (if this pipe ran here it may be a better intake) thats cool. But when you say thats an expensive intake for just a bunch of pipes I can buy from jegs, thats not cool. Or this is where this guy gets his raw materials so you can make his product for less and this is how its done. Or "Hey, this guy is full of BS selling you his chips, I'll do it for FREE!" great for you but IMO your stupid for giving away your efforts, your choice. You can announce you are willing to do it for Free, but don't take down someone else doing it.

 

Is IHOP wrong because you can buy a dozen eggs for $1.00, and a 3 egg omlet costs $7? Not at all, and we've rather covered this. But the posts need to reflect that in a fair manner, not one saying this is a load of crap I can make that omlet myself for less. Well, then do it! But don't say that IHOP is full of crap and throwing BS around. If their omletes are too expensive then say, I don't want to spend that much on an omlete.

 

Finally, this is not a government run board, you are not paying for it, you are here on your own free will. If someone is appointed Moderator, and then institutes some rules, you can see it how you will. If you don't like it leave. If you stay, the READ the rules and ADHERE to the rules. Otherwise leave. Voice your opinoin about what you think about the Moderator who POSTED the rules, but remember Jeff did not come up with them on his own. As stated they were reviewed and edited by a selection of people. Most importantly Shawn has made the decision to appoint Jeff a Moderator and approved of the rules, so please respect shawn, his board and his efforts.

[Jeff M]

I cant speek that good :oops: , so glad you did, and for an excellent overview and wrap up, and exactly what needed to be said. Everything being done with the REST of the rules and such are going to make topics here more enjoyable and productive, maybe even rewarding instead of a battle! And just for those few, Chris is not my b-buddy and has done a good job of kicking my butt with better worded postings like these, and in postings before having a better knowledge than I on many topics, and correcting my posts, does not bother me, I don't think he is god because of it but he has earned my respect and I stand humbly to the side, though will always be listening and learning 8) .

 

Jeff M

[topless94style]

Well the way i see it i have never had a convo with Jeff nor have i had one with you. So i have no beef to pick with either of you guys. But i do have a right to voice my opinion which is what i did. And my referance to the law i meant that there are laws passed that not everyone agrees too but they still follow them because they are laws.

 

I also dont ream on anyone for them buyin a product for 5 times more than you can make one. Thats their choice. Like its my choice to buy CD's instead of burning them. Personal preferance. Yea id like a nice looking intake on my car but im not willing to cough up $200+ for one.

 

I guess that last sentence wouldnt apply since no companys make cold air for our cars.

[Jeff M]

Chris did not “Quote†your statement so it was not directly solely at you , more so for all who have posted, or have feelings they have not shared/posted, and equally as important, to lay down another clearer perspective for all those coming to this forum to read in the future (not just today or tomorrow). His post as it states is about rules, products, posts gone bad etc and in general the topic for this post, it’s cool 8) .

 

Jeff M

[Chris A]

"Where's the beef"

 

Hi Shane, I'm guessing you are responding to my comments (im the "you" of "Jefff and you")? Nothing was directed at anyone, just adding my .02 about some points that were brought up.

 

Again, not sure here, but the last sentence(?) does, or did apply because there was (haven't heard from him in a while) an individual who was making a cold air kit. One that I thought was reasonable, but not neccesarily cheap. Considering alot of intakes for cars cost $150 and are typcially a straight pipe, this one cost $250 and was much more involved. And you are exactly right, "thats their choice". I think we should be more than willing to offer feedback on how something performs, or its weaknesses etc. So folks can make an educated choice to do it themselves or to buy it ready made!

[Slade901]

Well.. let me throw my 2 cents here.

 

I'm involved with Ham Radio. An example is an antenna design which a certain company have filed a "Patent". As a consumer, we are allowed to build that exact antenna and modify it to suit our needs. You can build the same antenna with modifications on it to someone else as long as you don't get any "money".

 

The keyword is the "Patent". If someone has an idea of a device, products, etc., and has not filed a "Patent" for it then that idea is up for grabs and another person could file a "Patent" and beat the one that came up with the idea.

[Jeff M]

Once again this all really only boils down to this; respect, or a lack of respect, the same thing that can take away from someone’s hard work, and the same that seems to set people off here flaming at each other when they don’t like someone else or their simple spoken words (or not so respectful spoken words). Products and ideas from a single member/individual or a small group of members/individuals here is not of the caliber of someone patenting something such as a large company would or an entrepreneur. People here are just trying to help by offering products for each other, it’s a very small group and is just like all the efforts that are made here to help each other with fixes and learning, and it will rightfully tick someone off if you take their idea and claim it as yours, respect and honesty, its not that hard! No one could get rich here/could not in this case if we tried with this small niche group, but if someone takes your idea that is wrong, we will not condone it or allow it no matter the small individual cases to the contrary. Just because someone can get away with it does not make it right. And if you say someone is doing something wrong so you can too, 2 wrongs do not make a right (you think this stuff would be common sense!). Laws are to set the guidelines for everyone to treat each other fairly, honesty and with respect, if that does not happen then the law is coming down.

 

Jeff M

[Chris A]

I have to agree with Shane. Even though you are moderator, you have no right saying people can't critize products. For many reason, but above all, it helps get the word out wheter or not something is any good, and second, freedom of speech. Also, from what I understand, you simple hacked GM's chip and modified it. So how are you any better? You need to rethink that rule. If I bought your chip, installed it in my car, and I didn't like it, I have every right to post my experience so potential buyers don't get a biased view about because every post is, TOPGUN CHIP RULES. I hope you get my point.

 

This isn't what I said here Red. I said we can't dissect products. If something sucks ass then say it!!! By all means. But it will not be tolerated to disassemble something and break it down for the purpose of giving away any trade secrets. We are turning this into far more of a blanket rule than it is supposed to be.

 

IMO when Kenny and Jeff had problems in the past is that Kenny had one copy of the code from Jeff. He used that code, modified it and redistributed it. He did not buy a copy from Jeff for each copy he redistributed. So someone could get from kenny for free a large portion of Jeffs work.

 

This also differs from the OE chip, because everyone has purchased an OE chip with their car. Jeff in essece is selling an improvement patch to that chip. Furthermore, since jeff provides a memcal (which is the chip, backup program, knock circuit and connector base) he has purchased the OE chip again from GM. If Kenny was sellling or giving away his chip, which contained Jeffs modifications to someone who already had Jeffs chip it would probably have been a different story. But I don't believe that this was the case.

 

So the arguments seem to revolve around who has MODIFIED this or that, but it really has to do with who already bought this or that. Yes if it was as simple as both JEFF and KENNY modifying somone elses work then they both did the same thing, the problem is how it was done.

 

The rules are NOT intended to keep critisizm down. What I may have alluded to and been interpreted as such, is some of my examples. There have been posts and comments through the years that tout someons product as BS and CRAP and too expensive, something that could be done for much cheaper yourself. Lots of guys say this, but few have ever backed it up.

 

Its fine if YOU find something too expensive. Its find if YOU think its not worth it. But when someone calls something they haven't tested used or looked at a load of crap BS and a ripoff smoke and mirrors etc is where I have an issue. When you pass up a product you have voiced your opinion that its undesireable or too expensive. We have too many people who wan to say that they have a better way. Fine, but don't slam someone else because YOU think you can do it better or cheaper. Just tell us how without taking down their work.

 

As for freedom of speech, if I walk into a meeting for the "Coalition of Elf Farmers" and scream "Elf farmers suck!" and they throw me out, why should I be mad? This forum has elected to institue some rules and guidelines to try and help out things. Rules limit absolute freedom. No one has absolute freedom of anything in this country, and now not on this board. If you don't like it you have the FREEDOM to leave and not participate.

[Chris A]

Seeing is how the rules are so strict here now that you can not link to anothers webpage for information...either PM me and I will get true DIY people the new web-site address or go to Waskie's TGP Forum and it is there under "How Do I"... 8)

 

Actually, a few people wanted making the rules wanted to have links here to other sites, even in the rules themselves. As I understand it, it has always been a policy here to limit linking to other sites as part of a campaign to bring traffic to that site. It has been permitted for limited specific informational purposes. I don't remember there actually being something in the rules that stated this?

[Chris A]

Very good!

 

We can all discuss changes to a stock chip, the workings of the stock chip. If the CREATOR of a modified chip wants to discuss their changes then great! The only thing we need to remember is if someone doesn't want their work (of anykind chips or otherwise) revealed then we must respect that. Meaning, if you aren't the creator/modifier or don't have specific permission from that person then it can't be discussed. Its that easy. Just remember, if you BUY or are GIVEN something and its a GREAT item, tell us. Tell us how it worked, weaknesses etc. Likewise, if you buy a BAD item that didn't work at all DEFINITELY tell us! Just do it in a manner that is not slamming or flaming them.

[Jeff M]

Chris...

 

I have said it once and I will say it a million times...the info that was burned into every chip was my work. Changes that I made to AZRC code to make it work for the 5-speed cars. More boost and stall issues were addressed as well as a few other things. Now if Jeff's chip is so close to AZRC that he wants to say it is his chip that I copied and gave to people...so be it! Jeff did not work his chip from scratch and neither did I!!

 

Oh on the contrary, IF that was the case (its NOT Chris so you are correct in your first statement!), then there would not of been a problem (other than the AZRC was not the original chip you had then or any of the owners, you learned that trick from me too!). BUT, I was suspicious of it really only being a stock chip with a manual conversion so, 2 people were nice enough to send me copies of their Kenny manual chips. When compared with mine it was the same AZRC chip I bought in the MEMCAL from GM ALONG with all the fixes I did to correct the AZRC problems, and ALL of my performance tweaks, surprise! As I had said before, the only changes to make this a manual performance chip was the boost fueling was changed back to being too rich (29 millisecond injector pulse width, hello!!), and the boost was raised too high at low rpms (knock/knock, are we listening!!?) and it had only one item changed for manual (on Mick's board he is agreeing with this fact now, not back when). All the rest of my performance chip was copied and claimed as the work done to the performance manual chip, some of what was copied was not simple stuff learned by me in a single day, that being; the main spark table with the 80% changes I did over stock (that took over a year to test in all weather extremes and on several TGPs to confirm repeatability in numerous locations/states in the USA), other timing changes were copied, the 12 fan-on set-points I put in copied, all single boost controls parameters, tons of my changes that were not just an AZRC chip were all there! This last one is going to kill you, I just remembered I did this way back in the beginning of chip tuning……the chip/my chip has my name in it, and the one that was sent back to me as the Manual Chip still had my name in it. How did I get my name into it (geee, why did I ever think I would need that feature!) if you put my chip (or your manual chip) into a Hex Editor and look next to the line of Hexadecimals you will see the same hex values converted into ASCI, and the first 5 chip values (which were once the date code and meaningless stuff) spells out the word “jeffmâ€Â! Do I need or does anyone need to go any further here!?

 

I am so tired of this bullshit that keeps spewing from Jeff's mouth that I screwed him...but as soon as I post something to back up my facts it is deleted by the NAZI moderator that has recently been appointed!! All this shows me is that he has serious issues about someone else making it public that they too can make a chip for themselves and it will dig into his wallet!!

 

WELLLL, if you did not lie this would not happen!

 

am finished with this entire subject of Jeff said this and Jeff said that! I need an Avatar made of a little Calvin pissing on the name Jeff...any takers??

 

If I could only beleive you but your track record is not looking very good right now (or back during any of my posts in the last year I have had to do!).

 

(the actual) jeffm, and his chip!

 

NOW, once again because of you/Kenny (who fuels others with lame excuses) and your need to cover up and lose control, this post is now lock. This post was supposed to be about rules, not what you don't like and your problems. CASE CLOSE!