MickeyV Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 So I've run into a problem with my 95 Pontiac GTP and I'm hoping some of you may have some advice / experience with what I'm up against. A couple of weeks ago I started my car and heard a loud POP followed by a 70's era harley sounding engine, extremely loud and rough. I turned the car off and popped the hood to find that one of my spark plugs had ejected itself from the head and was now hanging from the spark plug wire down by the radiator.. I noticed there was a sleeve on the plug, turns out the previous owner had stripped the threads out on that cylinder and had to tap new threads / buy the plug sleeve. I've tried a new sleeve, even a home made double sleeve (photo > http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/TBdEyYcGlDGOIjiDady5Zg?feat=directlink ) but had very little success. So do I try to tap the head out a second time and put an even bigger sleeve on the plug or try to find a new head>? any advice is much appreciated -Mickey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 the cam carriers are different. but I think the heads are the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 if you decide to get a new head, this should help... http://wot-tech.com/shop/clearance-rack/cat_77.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickeyV Posted November 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2009 Updates: So the new head is installed with a new head gasket / new timing belt. Everything is back together, and the car started (with a bit of labor, but it did start) I drove the car a few times, maybe 20km total, seemed to run pretty well. Now it won't start for some reason, when quick start is sprayed into the air intake it comes close but won't stay running. Seems like a fuel issue to me but I thought I would throw a post up and see if you guys had any ideas. Thanks in advance. -Mickey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1990lumina Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 So it will run on starting fluid as long as oyu keep spraying it? If it still doesnt run all that great maybe it is off time a cog off or two. As for everything esle check the basics - spark and fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunerlover3 Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 I wouldnt even bother checking spark. Check fuel pressure. If its running with the carb cleaner, the fuel pump may be dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 did you stick new intake gaskets in? sounds like a vaccum leak at the intake... Will the car run if you give it partial throttle while trying to start and keep partway on the thottle while warming up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickeyV Posted November 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Nah it won't start even with a second person spraying a steady stream of quick start directly into the air intake while the car is being turned over.. comes close, it feels like it wants to start but then it will come up just a bit short. I did not replace the intake gaskets but the previous owner had done them recently I believe, though I'm not certain. Re timing off a cog or two, would the car have started the first few times and run well, then all of sudden stop starting? it seems like if the timing is off the car should have never started / run ..? I probably started the car maybe 5 times with a total of 20k worth of driving, was running fine, came home and parked out front, went to go back out 30 minutes later and it wouldn't start/hasn't started since. I'm leaning towards the gas tank / fuel pump.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White93z34 Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 do you have spark? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickeyV Posted November 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Yes there is spark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickeyV Posted November 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 So I've taken a short video of the car trying to start, the first attempt is with no starting fluid, the second attempt (0:16 seconds) is with quickstart sprayed liberally into the air intake - When the fuel rail release valve is pressed in while trying to start gasoline shoots out about 2 - 3 inches.. Is there a way to test if the fuel injectors are firing? Video - thanks for your help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted November 26, 2009 Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 confused.... it did not start with the spray either, though.... what did you do for the timing belt? remove the cam carrier cover and see if the belt is intact... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White93z34 Posted November 27, 2009 Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 get a test light, and put it across one of your front injector plugs get a helper to try cranking and see if it lights up. the proper tool to do this would be a noid light, but a test lamp works in a pinch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickeyV Posted November 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2009 So when we tried the light while cranking the car over we get nothing - fuses have been checked / rechecked, wiring has been replaced, three different ICM's / two different coil packs. The belt is turning, and the crank position sensor was replaced not to long ago. The battery terminals have been cleaned as well. Very confusing. also, the fuel pressure seems to be way less compared to a friend of mines GTP, when you press the valve down on his car the gas sprays up like furiously, where-as my car when you release the valve it bubbles out very slowly, maybe two inches of height when the car is being turned over. Fuel pump / gas tank needs to be replaced perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mach 5 Posted December 1, 2009 Report Share Posted December 1, 2009 maybe your got an injector stuck open. Does the pressure bleed down when you clamp the return line? I don't think you would get spark if the crank sensor was bad. the wiring for the injectors is ok I assume...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artemis Posted December 1, 2009 Report Share Posted December 1, 2009 maybe your got an injector stuck open. Does the pressure bleed down when you clamp the return line? I don't think you would get spark if the crank sensor was bad. the wiring for the injectors is ok I assume...? If an injector was stuck open, he would still get at least a little bit of firing up. May not run, but at least give some feedback. Mickey will just turn the engine over and over and not even the smallest response. The only response is from starter fluid and still it won't start. I'm 110% certain the injectors aren't firing but I haven't the slightest idea why. I've been doing the testing with him, gonna try swapping my ECM and his to see if it works. But he is also right about the fuel pressure, mine flies up and hits the hood, where as his just goes an inch or 2 high. Where's the FPR on a GTP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL Posted December 6, 2009 Report Share Posted December 6, 2009 no clue what i was talking about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artemis Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 Im betting fuel pump because if you get a response when spraying starting fluid, the injectors are working The starter fluid gets sprayed into the TB... how would this suggest the injectors are firing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 I honestly have no idea how I made that connection... I must have read something wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickeyV Posted December 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Here is the latest and greatest regarding this bastard of a car: We lost spark for some strange reason, nothing had changed, just the spark had gone away. Took the car to a mechanic who said he had never seen an engine like mine in 35 years as a mechanic, and compared to a Maserati engine, and told me he thought the timing in the rear head/cams was off slightly, which had bent the valves, causing the NOX sensor to shut the engine down. Could the car have run for roughly 20km fine and then all of sudden bend valves? and why would we have had spark originally if the valves were bent / the nox sensor was in effect? in the video on page one of this thread the car comes damn close to starting with the quickstart sprayed in the throttle body. Anyway, it's now at a electrical specialist so we'll see if they can give me something to go on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Here is the latest and greatest regarding this bastard of a car: We lost spark for some strange reason, nothing had changed, just the spark had gone away. Took the car to a mechanic who said he had never seen an engine like mine in 35 years as a mechanic, and compared to a Maserati engine, and told me he thought the timing in the rear head/cams was off slightly, which had bent the valves, causing the NOX sensor to shut the engine down. Could the car have run for roughly 20km fine and then all of sudden bend valves? and why would we have had spark originally if the valves were bent / the nox sensor was in effect? in the video on page one of this thread the car comes damn close to starting with the quickstart sprayed in the throttle body. Anyway, it's now at a electrical specialist so we'll see if they can give me something to go on. TAKE IT TO A DIFFERENT MECHANIC. YOURS KNOWS JACK SHIT PERSONALLY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artemis Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 Here is the latest and greatest regarding this bastard of a car: We lost spark for some strange reason, nothing had changed, just the spark had gone away. Took the car to a mechanic who said he had never seen an engine like mine in 35 years as a mechanic, and compared to a Maserati engine, and told me he thought the timing in the rear head/cams was off slightly, which had bent the valves, causing the NOX sensor to shut the engine down. Could the car have run for roughly 20km fine and then all of sudden bend valves? and why would we have had spark originally if the valves were bent / the nox sensor was in effect? in the video on page one of this thread the car comes damn close to starting with the quickstart sprayed in the throttle body. Anyway, it's now at a electrical specialist so we'll see if they can give me something to go on. TAKE IT TO A DIFFERENT MECHANIC. YOURS KNOWS JACK SHIT PERSONALLY. He did, and now its working. One of the ICM wires was cut essentially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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