Galaxie500XL Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 In many localities, a missing cat means that you fail the "visual" portion of an emissions test. By visual, they're only looking to see if the emissions-related part is PRESENT, not if it's functioning. It also allows them to "fail" a car for emissions if the engine isn't what came in the car originally....in some localities, if it doesn't look like it came there from the factory, the car "fails" emissions, even though it might be very clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galaxie500XL Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 Found this on a website trying to help California people pass emissions inspections: Here's what they check in California before they ever even hook the car up... THE VISUAL INSPECTION During the visual portion of the Smog Inspection, the smog technician will be looking for the presence and proper connection of several State of California required, emission components, as well as conduct a Visible Smoke Test. The smog technician must locate and verify that all emissions components are present and properly connected. Along with emissions components, the smog technician will also be looking for any defective or disconnected electrical connections, vacuum hoses and/or any pipe or plumbing which would effect engine performance and ultimately increase harmful smog emissions. Note: During this part of the smog inspection process, the technician's inspection is only visual, and does not include testing emissions component for proper operation. The technician is required to simply locate the components visually, and insure they are properly connected. If a vehicle fails the smog inspection, it is up to the vehicle's owner to have individual emissions components inspected for damage or defects. A. Inspected Components During your personal inspection at home, ensure all hoses and wires are in place and properly connected. The following is a list of emission components that will be inspected by the smog technician: The Underhood Emission Label Exhaust Gas Recirculation Valve (EGR) Positive Crankcase Ventilation valve (PCV) Charcoal Canister (Evaporation Control System) Catalytic Converter (CAT) Oxygen Sensor (O2 Sensor) Air Injection System (AIR) Carburetor Pre-Heat Tube Additional Emissions Components The following emissions components are also part of the visual portion of the smog inspection. The smog technician will need to see that they are present and properly connected. NOTE: Certain older model vehicle may not be equipped with one or more of these components. 1. Air Filter & Housing 2. Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) 3. Engine Coolant Temp Sensor (ECT) 4. Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) 5. Crankshaft Position Sensor (CKP) 6. Camshaft Position Sensor (CPS) 7. Intake Air Temperature Sensor (IAT) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysteriphys Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 In many localities, a missing cat means that you fail the "visual" portion of an emissions test. By visual, they're only looking to see if the emissions-related part is PRESENT, not if it's functioning. It also allows them to "fail" a car for emissions if the engine isn't what came in the car originally....in some localities, if it doesn't look like it came there from the factory, the car "fails" emissions, even though it might be very clean. this is true in NB, although i'm not sure about the engine part, for me especially because I'm planning (depending on funding) a 3800/4t60E swap from 3100/close to death 4t60e, and i'm pretty good at making my wiring look *correct* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euro Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 Nice, catless FTW! Go out and rev your engine a few times to piss off all the ozone friendly people in this thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galaxie500XL Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 The frustrating thing is the laws are not uniform...what may be OK for me, might not be OK for you. Currently, there is no emissions testing in my area, but it appears it's just a matter of time. In many localities, a missing cat means that you fail the "visual" portion of an emissions test. By visual, they're only looking to see if the emissions-related part is PRESENT, not if it's functioning. It also allows them to "fail" a car for emissions if the engine isn't what came in the car originally....in some localities, if it doesn't look like it came there from the factory, the car "fails" emissions, even though it might be very clean. this is true in NB, although i'm not sure about the engine part, for me especially because I'm planning (depending on funding) a 3800/4t60E swap from 3100/close to death 4t60e, and i'm pretty good at making my wiring look *correct* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 me being the car car guy i am, and all the guys i know that are couldnt tell the difference between the hollow cat and a real cat. it didnt smell at all, and niether does my buick. beleive what you guys want about a cat but i have never seen a difference at an echeck with an old cat to a new cat. Your on crack then... Maybe I should go and get my e-test papers out of the GTP just to show you... Cat delete = fail I don't understand why people insist on removing them, it was designed to be there, you don't take off your hood because the engine will cool better do you? no, because it was designed to be there and the cops would give you a hard time. In most places it is the law to have a cat, and I don't care if your nose can't tell the difference, the eco-police and their testing equipment can. For what little gain you MIGHT get (2hp maybe) its a waste of time and money, especially if you get caught <-canada here, where did you get the Walker, and how much. I'm not in an eco controlled area, but i'd like to get a line on a decent piece, I think my cat is original, and hollow or not, it looks like the welds are about ready to rust off :-P good a time as any to find out :-P Where are you located? I am in Ontario... I got mine at Mufflerman in London. I would think that any good auto parts store could order you one in. Jamie untill you understand its just a matter of opinion here then you way as well argue with the wall. you guys tell me about the poor people behind me having to smell it, and i tell you that it doesnt smell. then you say taking the hood off does something too. do you keep the factory air box because it is how it was designed? hell no you rip that shit out for a fwi and love it. i just made exhaust less restrictive in an area that doesnt test for smog. big deal. IT IS AN OPINION. The problem is, there are some people here who insist that their experience encompasses all car ownership as a whole, that their opinions are ultimately correct, and that their decisions are flawless and anyone would be a fool not to follow along. When people don't agree or even compromise, they feel offended because that means they're not necessarily right. I've driven behind my car, and I'm fairly certain my 205k mile cat is shot, yet I can't smell anything abnormal with the exception of when the car warms up from a cold start. Nice, catless FTW! Go out and rev your engine a few times to piss off all the ozone friendly people in this thread But what about global warming?!?!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloick Posted August 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 The frustrating thing is the laws are not uniform...what may be OK for me, might not be OK for you. Currently, there is no emissions testing in my area, but it appears it's just a matter of time. In many localities, a missing cat means that you fail the "visual" portion of an emissions test. By visual, they're only looking to see if the emissions-related part is PRESENT, not if it's functioning. It also allows them to "fail" a car for emissions if the engine isn't what came in the car originally....in some localities, if it doesn't look like it came there from the factory, the car "fails" emissions, even though it might be very clean. this is true in NB, although i'm not sure about the engine part, for me especially because I'm planning (depending on funding) a 3800/4t60E swap from 3100/close to death 4t60e, and i'm pretty good at making my wiring look *correct* "tampering" is a federal law. and my egr valve is unplugged too bc it throws a code when it is plugged in. in all reality, if i worried about emissions and global warming, i wouldnt be driving a 17 year old car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 sorry, but there is no evidence that our emissions are causing global warming, or rather that global warming even exists. iirc the global temperatures are declining. global warming is a myth used by politicians to get leverage. there is no direct correlation between our auto emissions and this supposed climate change. brb while I go burn some old tires in the back yard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMichi Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 brb while I go burn some old tires in the back yard. when i go to peru ppl burn everything. the sky is crazy grey most of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galaxie500XL Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 brb while I go burn some old tires in the back yard Now that's funny! I realize it's hard to read someone via email...just wanted to make sure I wasn't being misunderstood... I was just commenting on what's legal...and what's not. I'm not taking sides on the issue. That being said...throw a tire on the bonfire for me, too....I've got big feet, so I should have a large carbon footprint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 sorry, but there is no evidence that our emissions are causing global warming, or rather that global warming even exists. iirc the global temperatures are declining. global warming is a myth used by politicians to get leverage. there is no direct correlation between our auto emissions and this supposed climate change. brb while I go burn some old tires in the back yard. FTW X100 i'm really starting to like you andrei... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 lol. hi5 guys. as for legal or not legal, an out of state cop can't do jack so long as your car's condition is legal in the state it is registered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysteriphys Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 note to some above comments, in 1968( and a few years earlier) Plymouth had a 225 slant 6 that got approx 40 mpg when properly maintained, gas mileage in engines has dropped drastically after the introduction of eco-tool interference, and just lately has barely made it's way back to the way it was then, just with all the doodads and such in the way. also: FTWX1000 the the anti- eco-tool educator above, to add to that, the proof that we are not the biggest problem in polution, the oceans of earth put out approximately 60% of annual CO2 **naturally** i.e. nothing to do with oil or any other human interference. and thats just the tip of natures polluting habits :-P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 the reason we run engines at a 14.7:1 A/F ratio is for the catalytic convertor to operate properly to reduce emissions, its not for anything else. its nice having an ECU that i can tell to lean the AFR out to whatever i want in low-load situations for extra fuel economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galaxie500XL Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 Actually, I remember reading my dad's Hot Rod Magazines in the early 70's... 14.7:1 wasn't chosen just for emissions. It's the theoretical ratio that should mean that all available fuel is burned each power stroke. That was several years prior to catalytic converters and such.. the reason we run engines at a 14.7:1 A/F ratio is for the catalytic convertor to operate properly to reduce emissions, its not for anything else. its nice having an ECU that i can tell to lean the AFR out to whatever i want in low-load situations for extra fuel economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 thats the exact definition to lower emissions: complete combination of all fuel and air. its still just the EPA grabbing the automakers by the balls and making them play by their rules... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 Y'all are still idiots for hacking a cat off. And if you cant smell a difference between the cat and catless, that further proves my point that your IQ is well below 80. And no matter what US state, removing a cat and going straightpipe no matter what vehicle even if the old cat was bad is a Felony. Read up kiddies. I seriously hope yall that hack cats off get plenty of tickets. Im sick of driving behind people with no cat, it smells horrible. My cat clogged up, I thought about straight piping it for about 1 second. After some nice exhaust work, I have a 2.5" DP with a Catco cat and a new entire 2.5" exhaust. Sounds good, even with my car pushing 180000 miles, it passed E-check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 Actually, I remember reading my dad's Hot Rod Magazines in the early 70's... 14.7:1 wasn't chosen just for emissions. It's the theoretical ratio that should mean that all available fuel is burned each power stroke. That was several years prior to catalytic converters and such.. the reason we run engines at a 14.7:1 A/F ratio is for the catalytic convertor to operate properly to reduce emissions, its not for anything else. its nice having an ECU that i can tell to lean the AFR out to whatever i want in low-load situations for extra fuel economy. Fuel-air mixture is one of the most important principles of internal combustion engine operation. For gasoline, the stoichiometric fuel-air ratio is 14.7:1. That is, 1 unit of fuel mass is consumed for every 14.7 units of air mass that are drawn into the engine. The stoichiometric is neither most fuel efficient nor delivers the most power; it is a compromise. The Stoichiometric ratio usually is the least polluting, because the catalytic converter can most easily remove pollutants at such a ratio. This mode is used during cruising and light acceleration. For optimum power, a 12.7:1 (slightly fuel-rich) fuel-air ratio should be used. The latent heat of vaporization of the extra fuel cools down the combustion chamber, making the air more dense. Since this dense air is heavier than normal air, more fuel can be drawn in, increasing power. This cooling effect also protects engine parts from melting (if you are running very high temperatures), and lowers the octane requirement. However, it is not very fuel efficient, it can foul spark plugs, and is polluting (the catalytic converter is outside its optimum range, and VERY polluting unburned hydrocarbons are released). Modern cars usually only use this mode (called fuel enrichment mode) under hard acceleration. For maximum fuel economy, a 16:1 (fuel-lean) fuel-air ratio should be used. However, the lack of extra fuel to cool the engine results in hot,less dense intake air, reducing power. Also, the extra heat puts stress on engine parts, and increases octane requirement. Although less polluting than fuel-rich, fuel-lean produces large amount of nitrogen oxides, as well as putting the catalytic converter out of its range. Lean mixtures are generally not used on modern, pollution-controlled vehicles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 thank you Crazy K, i was looking for that exact info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted2bass Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 Muffler delete > Cat delete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 Muffler delete > Cat delete X2, especially on a 3.1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jman093 Posted August 29, 2009 Report Share Posted August 29, 2009 I say, drive what you want and don't apologize about it. It it runs and sounds better, more power to you. Who cares if it stinks? My car stinks even with a newer cat on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOT2B GM Posted August 29, 2009 Report Share Posted August 29, 2009 Seriously, if you can't smell the difference between cat vs catless, then your nose is fried..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted2bass Posted August 29, 2009 Report Share Posted August 29, 2009 Hell my car still has a cat and judging by the smell of it i doubt it would pass a e-test. That is if NY had such a thing for cars 96 and older. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted August 29, 2009 Report Share Posted August 29, 2009 Seriously, if you can't smell the difference between cat vs catless, then your nose is fried..... i think i belong to that group as well... with my dad's 70 monte, when its not running rich, smells the same to me as the 95 MC... ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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