FWD Cutlass to RWD

[rich_e777]

OK i hate FWD on cars, especially cars that are suppose to be RWD to begin with. So i want to change that in my 1994 Cutlass Supreme 3100. I would love to drop some serious muscle in it like a 455 out of an old firebird or a 454 out of a chevelle, but a 3.8 V6 with turbo or a supercharger would be awesome. So i need to find out if a W-body frame will support a rear end and possibly a transmission like in the corvette. Or can i pull the rear end and transmission off a S-10 or a camaro and it will be wide enough? Anybody have any ideas? Frame Diagrams for W-Body and G-Body and whatever kindof body they used for the 94 camaro(J-Body?) Mid Engine RWD sounds good to, whichever will be easier.

[Artemis]

There's a dude on here (think his name is Soccer something) that did a northstar RWD conversion on his Grand Prix. IIRC he used a camaro rear end, and lots of welding work. Anything is possible with the know-how, money, and time. Someone else will have more details im sure.

[RobertISaar]

i'll put this out there since a lot more members will give you a lot of shit since there have been like 3 people to ever convert a W to RWD and still drive it on the street(compard to the hundreds that have thought/asked about it)

 

you'll have a much easier time doing this:

 

find a G-Body frame, rip EVERYTHING off of it, then put the body panels/glass from a W on it, figure out how to get the interior to match.

 

trust me, i've looked into it, why the g-body frame? theres only 1/2" difference in wheelbase and they fairly close in terms of width, height, length

[White93z34]

step 1. buy a pre 1988 cutlass

step 2. open hood and see proper configuration

step 3. profit.

 

if you are serious you can make anything happen with the right amount of tools and $$

its been done a few times here, all of which required tons and tons of time and money to make it work.

[RobertISaar]

step 1. buy a pre 1988 cutlass

step 2. open hood and see proper configuration

step 3. profit.

 

if you are serious you can make anything happen with the right amount of tools and $$

its been done a few times here, all of which required tons and tons of time and money to make it work.

 

technicly you could get a 88 cutlass that was RWD, cutty supreme classic(time to endure the wrath of the admin for pointing out a flaw).

[White93z34]

if you must split hairs over it then yes you are right. I was talking G bodys not w bodys.

[RobertISaar]

if you must split hairs over it then yes you are right. I was talking G bodys not w bodys.

 

ahh, but you never specified....

 

and my pirate picture is back.... but my name didn't change again? oh well, its off-topic.

 

but rich_e777: its a major PITA, but if you HAVE to have RWD with that body, then its about your best best. i've also heard that certain S10/Sonoma frames will work as well, but why would you put a truck frame under a car, 4WD(god no, don't even think of it, i've seen it with a grand prix, neon and countless other cars/minivans that never should have touched the owners hands...)

[jman093]

To be honest, if you're coming onto a web forum and asking how something with that much labor and custom fabrication is done, then this job isn't for you. Like said, just buy a G-body Cutlass Supreme and have all the tire-smoking RWD fun you want.

[RobertISaar]

To be honest, if you're coming onto a web forum and asking how something with that much labor and custom fabrication is done, then this job isn't for you. Like said, just buy a G-body Cutlass Supreme and have all the tire-smoking RWD fun you want.

 

uh-huh, all 180HP of tire-shredding goodness(assuming its a L69)... but its fairly easy to put a better motor in it.

[jman093]

Maybe only 180hp, but L69's had the torque to spin tires. Besides, Cutty's came with a 307 with more power than an L69 did.

[RobertISaar]

Maybe only 180hp, but L69's had the torque to spin tires. Besides, Cutty's came with a 307 with more power than an L69 did.

 

they were still dogs....

 

they didn't call them gutlass cutlasses for no reason.

[Andrew]

Keep It Simple Stupid.

 

1 - buy a RWD car you like.

2 - have fun.

[rich_e777]

Dudes Ive got a 96 Vette with a nice amount of power, I want my Cutlass just as fast if not faster. Its a muscle car not a fucking rice burner, leave FWD to the little import toy cars. And the 1988 Cut Supreme didnt look as good as a 1994 does so im going to fucking do it regard less of how hard it is. I figured a G-body stripped was my best bet, but I need a frame diagram to compare with the W-body frame, thats really what im looking for, not some dumbass opinion. rrobertisaar, Artemis thxs for the info ill take both your suggestions in consideration. Another idea i had was to take the rear seats out and just stick the 3100 in the back as it is(rebuilt with new parts of course) with the transmission and drive axels in the back. If i wanted something easy to drop parts in i`d just assume buy a mustang or a Honda (ewwww ryhmes with shit) and used bolton parts and have a car that so many thousands of others have. Working on these W-bodies you almost have to custom fabricate just about everything, a real mechanics dream sort of.

[White93z34]

...Its not really a muscle car, its a mid 90s family transportation appliance. Thats what all our cars are. FWD isan't so bad as you seem to be making it out, plenty of people here have some fun FWD cars.

 

That said. If you are dead set on making a project out of it to go RWD, look to people like soccorplaygtp, there was another guy who dumped a z34 on a wrecked 4th gen trans am chassis, and then there is that guy in chicago... I forget his name who has a twin engine cutlass. They all went RWD, and all took totally different ways to do it. I highly doubt you will find a frame that will just fit under the car. its going to need modifications no matter what. Start measuring up, break out the welder. and prepare for a whole bunch of work. so long as you can finance the project and you have the motivation you can do anything.

[Leadfoot]

Honestly, if you are that serious about making it RWD, find a C5 Corvette drivetrain. Then you don't have to modify the dash/ console/interior as much to make room for a RWD tranny. The tranny and rear diff are in the back. you will lose a ton of trunk space and still need to do something about the gas tank, but I think this would be far easier than trying to do a standard RWD tranny with the space a cultass will allow. You could probably use the C5 cradle / suspension up front and just make it fit the Cutlass. As for the frame having the strength. I honestly doubt it. The car wasn't made for that much torque/stress in the direction you will be putting it out in RWD form. I am sure some bracing and welding can overcome it, but how much is just a good guess by anyone.

[5speedz34]

...Its not really a muscle car, its a mid 90s family transportation appliance. Thats what all our cars are. FWD isan't so bad as you seem to be making it out, plenty of people here have some fun FWD cars.

 

That said. If you are dead set on making a project out of it to go RWD, look to people like soccorplaygtp, there was another guy who dumped a z34 on a wrecked 4th gen trans am chassis, and then there is that guy in chicago... I forget his name who has a twin engine cutlass. They all went RWD, and all took totally different ways to do it. I highly doubt you will find a frame that will just fit under the car. its going to need modifications no matter what. Start measuring up, break out the welder. and prepare for a whole bunch of work. so long as you can finance the project and you have the motivation you can do anything.

 

I think you not only summed up the W-body chassis in a few short sentences but you also gave some of the wisest automobile advice out there......if you have money and determination anything is possible.

[rich_e777]

Thats a good idea leadfoot, But i`d hate tearing up a Corvette to use for parts. Im not worried about losing trunk or cabin space as i figured id lose my back seat from the tranny. Im not trying to keep any kind of space or comfort. I think im going with a turbocharged 3.8 V6. What did McClaren do special to the 3.8 they put in the Buick GNX?

[RedGTP]

Look here !

 

It put his FWD GTP to RWD with RWD cady engine, T-56 transmission and GNx rear diff

 

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/665715

[GnatGoSplat]

Thats a good idea leadfoot, But i`d hate tearing up a Corvette to use for parts. Im not worried about losing trunk or cabin space as i figured id lose my back seat from the tranny. Im not trying to keep any kind of space or comfort. I think im going with a turbocharged 3.8 V6. What did McClaren do special to the 3.8 they put in the Buick GNX?

 

Actually, I come across C5 and C6 rolling chassis on eBay all the time.

AND, as luck would have it, there's several for sale right now!

One

Two

Three

Four

 

I always thought that would be the way to go. Someone (or maybe more than one person) vehemently disagreed, I can't remember their arguments against it. I still think it's the way to go because:

1. Less modifications required to the frame. I don't know that modifying the frame is that difficult for a good weldor, but I personally think modifying the unibody structure too much could potentially have a disastrous impact on safety. For example, welding in the frame structure from another car into the rear could affect the rear crumple zone. Imagine one day you get rear ended and now the rear crumple zone doesn't absorb energy the way it was designed and instead transmits that energy into the safety cage causing the entire passenger compartment to buckle around you.

 

2. A FWD unibody is not designed for the torsional forces of a conventional RWD drivetrain. I could be wrong, but I think the Corvette chassis minimizes torsional forces by encapsulating the driveshaft within the torque tube which has a solid coupling between engine and tranny.

 

3. Engine up front, tranny in the rear = closer to perfect 50/50 weight distribution.

 

4. Independent rear suspension = Better handling than a solid rear axle. Your car has IRS now, so at least the handling capability shouldn't decrease.

 

If you look at those rolling chassis and think they're too expensive... with all the custom work that'll go into an RWD conversion, no matter how you do it, you'll be spending a buttload of cash any way you go.

 

[boymeetspavement]

Tunnel and subframe that mofo ! And while your at it drop in a blown 455, and while your doing that cage it...AND NOS AND ALCOHOL AND A PARACHUTE AND....k now Im just being a prick.

 

Seriously Im not sure if your going to find a rame that would just slip under the car. Modifications like these take a long time to complete on a normal budget and are reserved those who are very very talented when it comes to this type of work.

 

And for the record: if I ever called my gp a muscle car even my 15 year old brother would smack me in the back of the head....and he mistook the oil filter for the muffler when I let him work on the blazer with me the other day.

[RobertISaar]

and he mistook the oil filter for the muffler when I let him work on the blazer with me the other day.

 

even my wife knows the difference between those

[xtremerevolution]

You must have to REALLY love your car to convert it to RWD. For the same price, you could buy an already RWD car and make it a pretty badass car.

 

Now I know people are going to start bitching at me about "have I told you about my jag yet?", but this situation deserves mention.

 

I bought a 1987 Jaguar XJS with a blown driver's cylinder head for $600 with a destroyed valvetrain from overheating. I have new heads and have all of the parts I need to put it back together, having spent so $2830 so far including the price of the car, towing, registration, etc. That's with EVERYTHING.

 

The car does 0-60 in 6.7 stock and hits 153mph, at 235rwhp. My upgrades will take me to 280-300whp, all for around $3k. The original MSRP of the car, if inflation is adjusted to today's dollar value, would be around $81k.

 

Point being, as this is only an example of many you can choose from, you can get very fast and very nice RWD car for a LOT cheaper than it costs to convert a w-body to RWD. You must have a stockpile of resources, experience, tools, and time, all of which typical w-body owners don't have.

 

Do yourself a favor and get an early 90's camaro/trans am and go from there.

[rich_e777]

Once a muscle car always a muscle car. To me its all about lineage, just because GM fucked it up in 1988 dosnt mean anything less to me. Yes i love this car its got over 150K on her and cranks out enough power with the right mods from a 3100 to keep up and out pace more than some of you would believe. Ive spent lots of money and even more time messing around with the engine, this car was my first and is everything to me. Im not concerned with safety or crumple zones although if im going as far as to weld braces or reinforcements to the frame i probably will go ahead and add a roll cage. Any body know anything about rear mounted transmissions? Im mixed between a 455 V8 or a 3800 V6 but its going to be easier and better for handling if the tranny is in the back. Im in the planning stage for this project so keep the ideas coming. Im building my dream car not yours if you dont have a good idea then stfu!

[xtremerevolution]

hey man, relax. chill. you're new here so nobody knows what you are or aren't capable of, or whether or not you have any idea what you're talking about or what would be involved. just thinking you can drop a 445 into this car with is ludicrous. those are the kinds of comments that make people think you're pulling shit out of your ass. a big block chevy will NOT physically fit in that engine bay unless all you carry over are the fenders and use it as an off-road drag car. the ideas are flattering but the reality is humbling. The regal, grand prix, lumina, monte carlo, and cutlass supreme all carried onto the fwd platform and didn't go back. its been 22 years so lineage means nothing. If you want a rwd cutlass, buy a rwd cutlass.

 

Even the grand prix posted earlier used a northstar, which is a much smaller engine, and it was still a tight fit. do you have the knowledge to fabricate such a car? do you have the resources? the tools? the garage? or are you just wasting everyone's time with an idea that has already been debated in several other threads and concluded to be absolutely impractical and pointless.

 

I honestly can't tell if you're serious.

[rich_e777]

Ive got tools, space and literally a junk yard across the street. I found a guy that did the exact thing to a Z34 Lumina so im getting my info from him. This is going to take alot of welding and fabrication and gives me an excuse to use some tools i havent been able to use yet. But last question, where is the best place to find information on rear mounted transmissions? I might be new to the site but im not to cars so dont make the mistake that im just some kid, ive been doing crazy shit like this for years. This is really one of my more sane ideas.