Dark Ride Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 Hey Guys, I'm looking at overhauling the suspension on the TGP, now I've seen a couple options and I'd like to get your opinions. I have no love for the rear monoleaf, so rear coil-overs are a must. I'm probably going to build my own using 1loudcuttys thread on making your own, but I'm trying to decide between using the stock mount or paying the extra money to buy the custom rear mounts. Whats the benefit of using the custom mount? This car will never see Auto-X but I'd like it to handle well and be safe. I'm also looking at replacing the lateral arms since mine are bent. I'd like to use the 2nd gen lateral since I've heard they're stronger and way cheaper than Held (does he even make them anymore?) I've been told they are about an inch longer so the wheels will stick out farther. Do you think these will make the car look goofy since the rear wheels are out farther? Will this cause issue with the strut mount since it will be more at an angel? How bad will it screw up the alignment, because I know nothing about alignments and I would have to have someone do it? Other parts going on will be a 99 lumina LTZ rear sway bar and new KYB Struts. GMPP trailing arms are already on. Let me know your opinions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 what's so bad about a monoleaf? I pulled .91 g's laterally with my regal with a flex-a-form rear lowered leaf. it was easier to install than coilovers which need a spring compressor, cheaper, it helps reduce body roll which coilovers do not, it keeps the warranty on your kyb gr2's, and it seems its only disadvantage is that its not adjustable and that i'm still the only one here who has one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Ride Posted May 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Get the upper mounts with spherical bearings.. They are gonna be much better. The spherical bearing allows for a more stiff response with no noise, its bind free. Using the stock upper mount works ok, but it will give you noise as the spring can move side to side a tad bit (never enough to actually shift, but enough to cause an interesting noise) Using the longer lateral links will make it looks so much better!! Remember, stock, the rear track width is shorter than the front, i dunno why GM sunk in our rear wheels, but they are idiots for that. Hence Gen 2 cars have a wider rear track width.. Trust me, it looks much better, the wheel will not stick out of the wheel well, it will actually be much more even. Since you will have KYB struts, they are already slotted!! Makes for easy proper camber adjustment When you bolt in the Gen 2 links, and your rear subframe is slotted (toe adjustment on Gen 1 and 1.5) make sure you tighten down the bolts when the link it in the outermost part of the slot. You want to remembe to do that so they are even, or you will get a setback issue (kinda annoying to align right and looks goofy) When doing the rear coilovers, make sure you have a rear strut tower brace!! I would not install them without one Also, since you will have longer lateral arms, you will have no problem using the Gen 1.5 rear sway bar. I have the 7/8"-22mm and my rear end feels quite stable and really stiff. Anymore questions, feel free to ask, ive been all over our suspension!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Ride Posted May 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 I was hoping you would post, I was going to post it in your thread, but I didn't really want to hi-jack your thread. When you bolt in the Gen 2 links, and your rear subframe is slotted (toe adjustment on Gen 1 and 1.5) make sure you tighten down the bolts when the link it in the outermost part of the slot. You want to remembe to do that so they are even, or you will get a setback issue (kinda annoying to align right and looks goofy) You lost me on this though. I don't really know anything about alignment, I always have to pay someone to align it. Do you think there will be an issue with the angle the strut meets the mount with the longer lateral arms? Or would your custom mount take care of that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Everything will be ok... The rear subframe where the stock rearward mounted lateral links bolt to have a slot. Allows the arm to move when loosened to adjust toe. When you install the Gen 2 links, they are adjustable themselves, so the factory slots wont be used. Just make sure when you bolt the new links in, that they are pulled to the outward part of the slot. Keeps things even. There is no issue where the strut meets the mount. Actually, since the angle is slightly increased, maybe 1/2-1 degree, there will be slightly less strain on the strut tower. So there are no worries in the department. Venom is supposed to be at my place around 4 this afternoon. If he brings his CS out, we will be installing the rear coilovers, larger sway bar, and longer lateral links. We intend to do a super complete writeup with pics of every step of the way. It shouldnt take us long as I just got a new Snap On cordless impact gun, so everything should be done quickly with a power tool. Im thinking about getting my car up the air here in a bit to rotate my tires, so I might snap a few pics and post them of what I mean a bit earlier than tonight.. Shoot me more questions man!! Oh, and for a cost reason, I would use a stock mount 1st. I am still yet to try out the custom mounts. I want to order a set from Mark (dohcv6) who is machining them with a month to see how they work out, but if you wanna be the 1st to use my design, go ahead!! I spent a lot of time on it and I really would like to see others enjoy the benifits of the solid mount with spherical bearings -Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP4U2NV Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Sounds like you are doing the same set up I have. I am doing: Front- KYB Cartrages Intrax Monte Springs ES sway bar bushings upper stb (RAT) Rear- Rear Kyb shocks rear 2nd gens lats and spindler rods (with es bushings) rear 2nd gen spindle and brakes rear GMPP trailing arm Rear mono leaf delete Mounts Unknown. Depends on the the build date for the custom mounts. Delay and cost may cause me to sweep to the factory units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Well if you are indeed interested in the custom mounts I designed, hit up the group buy section. I have a thread there. Post and send Mark (aka dohcv6) a PM saying you want a set.. Hmmm, so lets see whos gonna get the Gen2 Aluminum knuckles and brakes on our Ws first Im gonna grab a set next pay when I go to pull a part in Cleveland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP4U2NV Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 To be most "techinical"...... I was the first with the 2nd gen rear knuckles installed. I put them on for a test fit. It all bolted up. I have not installed the 2nd gen laterals, spindle and trailing arms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTZrocks Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 By how much can the generation 2 lateral links be adjusted in length? Can they be adjusted to exactly the length of generation 1 or 1.5 lateral links? I am asking because the rear subframe on my car (generation 1.5) is not slotted and hence does not have variable mounting positions for the lateral arms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 By how much can the generation 2 lateral links be adjusted in length? Can they be adjusted to exactly the length of generation 1 or 1.5 lateral links? I am asking because the rear subframe on my car (generation 1.5) is not slotted and hence does not have variable mounting positions for the lateral arms. The Gen2 links are adjustable, the rearward mout is, it will set toe.. The front one is solid. You dont need a slotted subframe, but if you do I was saying to make sure to install them in the same position as to not to effect setback which can cause a pull.. Like I just finished up Venoms car, his is slotted, I just made sure the arms are bolted in the same position in the slots.. No biggie.. The whole point in the Gen2 arms is that they are adjustable for toe, they are longer, and are stronger.. The longer arms allow the rear wheels to sit in a more natural/agressive position in the wheel well.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP4U2NV Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 The Gen2 links are adjustable, the rearward mout is, it will set toe.. The front one is solid. You dont need a slotted subframe, but if you do I was saying to make sure to install them in the same position as to not to effect setback which can cause a pull.. Like I just finished up Venoms car, his is slotted, I just made sure the arms are bolted in the same position in the slots.. No biggie.. The whole point in the Gen2 arms is that they are adjustable for toe, they are longer, and are stronger.. The longer arms allow the rear wheels to sit in a more natural/agressive position in the wheel well.. I have took my 1993 lats and spindle and messured them to the 2nd gen units. THEY ARE THE SAME LENGHT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 No, they are not! The trailing arms are, the lateral links are not... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP4U2NV Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 Not that I want to get into a he said, she said. I personaly had a front and rear factory links from my 1993 out of the car. I have a new powder coated set of spindle and lateral links. I placed them on top of each other and passed a bolt through both holes at the same time. Now, I can only see a couple ways that you and I can both be correct. 1) I got some weird 2nd Gen arms? 2) I got some weird 1st gen arms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 I have 2 other people who can vouch they are different in length.. Both Venom and Ken Hell, I just helped Venom install his Gen 2 arms in his 95 CS.. Ken assisted in installing mine on my 96 CS Both donor vehicles were Impala's i believe.. Mine was from an 2000 Impala.. They are all the same part. I have also measured Gen 1 and Gen 2 cars during alignments. Thats how I 1st found out they were different length.. They are appx 1" longer IIRC.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP4U2NV Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 Well I know that 2 of mine where from a 03? Impala and the other 2 from a 02 GP. All I can Say is WTF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venom Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 I have 2 other people who can vouch they are different in length.. Both Venom and Ken Hell, I just helped Venom install his Gen 2 arms in his 95 CS.. Ken assisted in installing mine on my 96 CS Both donor vehicles were Impala's i believe.. Mine was from an 2000 Impala.. They are all the same part. I have also measured Gen 1 and Gen 2 cars during alignments. Thats how I 1st found out they were different length.. They are appx 1" longer IIRC.. Mine were from a 99 or 00 regal and yes they are longer because I compared the two before installing them. Plus as soon as we set the car back on the ground I could tell that the wheels were sticking out more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP4U2NV Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 Ill be happy as hell if they stick out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 Ill be happy as hell if they stick out. yeah it looks tons better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Ride Posted July 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 I am curious what brand of mounts you guys are using? I decided against the custom mounts mainly because of the additional cost and that I probably won't take advantage of it. So what mounts are you guys using? I was looking at KYB's but they don't look the same, it looks like they are missing the bumper that holds the isolator in place. Thanks, Mitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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