w-bodys_are_the_best Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 Well this is exactly where I ended up last summer when I tore out the motor and trans. I quit working on it after that, lined motor and trans back up and stuck one of the bolts in to keep them together. I got a wild hair today and decided to get the Z24 out of the garage, pull the bad motor and 284 combo off its pallet and try it again. This time I paid a little more attention and realized that it's hanging up on the throwout bearing somehow. It only comes apart about an inch, but I realized the throwout arm come out towards the slave hole and once it hits, the trans won't slide any further. I slid it back up onto the dowel pins again, put my jack handle inbetween the T/O arm and the slave hole to block it from moving, and wala the trans won't budge more that 1/4" because it's hitting the jack handle. This tell me somehow the TO bearing is seized, but that doesn't make sense either since the T/O slides on the input shaft which is connected to the trans . I don't know what else it would be caught on, the clutch and pressure plate are bolted to the flywheel, and it slides for an inch then stops, so I don't think its the clutch hanging. I've never had trouble geting a trans off the engine, I've had lots of trouble getting them put back together. Usually the problem is getting them back together, most cars are a bitch to get the end of the input shaft into the pilot bearing, I've spent hours on other vehicles getting the last 1/2" and getting them mated. The 284 and 282 don't use a pilot bearing, so that make this usually not a problem on the GM FWD's. But I've never ran into this much trouble getting it apart, it usually takes a bit of wiggling and they slide right off. I slid them back together and re-installed one of the bolts. I don't know what else to look for, the slave is off everything is unhooked, it's not catching on the intermediate shaft, that's all good to go. I soaked eveything in penetrating oil since I'm not going to re-use the clutch, I don't have to worry about contaminating it. I thought maybe somehow the T/O arm has to be unbolted, but that's not the case either. I thought about tapping the T/O arm forward, but I don't want to take any chance at bending it. I'm lost I don't know what else to do to get it apart. If anyone has any other ideas let me know, I'd like to get this car done finally, it's been sitting way too long. I'm going to look for my FSM for the 91 and see what it says, if I can find the damn thing. Trans and motor slid together Notice the T/O arm all the way back This is as far as the trans will go Notice T/O arm hitting case Facing the back of the motor, this is the left side through the inspection hole 2 Shots from the right side inspection hole: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOT2B GM Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 grab onto the end of the throwout arm (where the clutch slave attaches) with a set of vise grips, and pull it away from the throwout bearing as you are seperating the trans from the motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuntzie Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 grab onto the end of the throwout arm (where the clutch slave attaches) with a set of vise grips, and pull it away from the throwout bearing as you are seperating the trans from the motor. hey thats exactly what i told you!! lol i got bad new for you though.. now that youve been trying to yank, youve fucked up a bunh of crap and most likely bent the clutch fork. your going to have a bith of a time... take a pry bar and go to town.. it may be ur only option now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOT2B GM Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 grab onto the end of the throwout arm (where the clutch slave attaches) with a set of vise grips, and pull it away from the throwout bearing as you are seperating the trans from the motor. hey thats exactly what i told you!! lol Just passing on good advise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w-bodys_are_the_best Posted May 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 I figured it out after looking a little closer at the book. The stupid thing is when you read the FSM under "removing manual transaxle" it says nothing at all about this step, it then goes right into "installation". It doesn't even reference to anything else. I read under the clutch chapter about pulling the release arm that did nothing at first. I ended up sliding it all the way back on, pulling out on the arm and sliding it all back, it worked perfectly and came right off. Thanks for the replies. Nothing is bent up, I didn't pry on anything because of that reason, all I did was pull on the trans away from the motor with the motor laying on a block. Now I need to pull the clutch off and get the flywheel to my friend's machine shop. I also need to get the accesories swapped onto the new longblock, which will include getting a rebuilt PS pump, mine is leaking badly. I'm going to take the alternator off the used engine I bought, and put the other on in it's place after getting it rebuilt. It worked fine but if I'm going to re-sell my used motor I want to be sure that the buyer is getting a good alt. I was planning on getting the Felpro LIM gaskets instead of using the GM ones that were shipped with the motor, but I don't think I can afford it. I know I'll just be tearing it back apart eventually, but may have to use the OEM gaskets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuntzie Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 after further inspection of the pics.. it appears you actually wedged the fork into the TO bearing... take a jack bar and go through the bottom inspection hholw and spin the TO bearing.. while doing that get someone to wiggle the fork... this will definitly do the deed. ive done this far to many times now its like a skill to me lol no matter what the TO bearing is fucked, your not resusing the clutch or pressure plate, the main concern is the TO fork, its vital and you cant just go buy one. i once reused my pressure plate.. the TO bearing still attached... try putting that one back together... 3 hours later lol. when these come to the junk yard, or i get a car, i can get the trans out in about 45 minutes with barely any tools, and have all the swap parts (minus firewall plate) in about 2 hours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuntzie Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 glad u got it done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w-bodys_are_the_best Posted May 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 Thanks for the help. What got me messed up is I've never worked on a pull-type clutch. After looking at the diagrams in the FSM, and figuring out WTF they mean because they word shit so weird, it makes sense. I have to see something work, and then I completely understand the mechanical reasoning behind it . I've doen a half a dozen clutch jobs, only one other GM, the others were ford pickups, none of them have the TO bearing atatched to the pressure plate, it all comes out with the trans. I can see now why the forks would slip up from behind the TO bearing, and why the TO bearing has to stay there. If it wasn't this way, obviously there would be no way to pull the clutch back. I'm hoping the TO bearing is ok, but I think I have another one with the other clutch. I bought the clutch used (3k miles as per receipts and paperwork) from a guy in WI that had a 92 with a blown diff. I have the input shaft from the 92's trans for a clutch alignment tool I may still buy a clutch, I am going to take pics of the clutch I have and put them on here, but it looked perfectly fine to me, no glazing etc. I still need a select (IIRC) cable for it. The guy I got the clutch, master, slave, shift knob and boot from was supposed to call me back about the cables and never did. I was supposed to send him a money order for $10 and he was going to send me the cable, but he never called back and the cables probably got thrown in the car to be crushed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuntzie Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 i would never ever ever sell one of my cables for 10 bucks lol... and i have 3 or 4 pairs that would have been a deal! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOT2B GM Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 I know thats crazy cheap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w-bodys_are_the_best Posted May 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 He said it made no difference to him, he didn't need them. So here's the deal and some pictures of that other clutch. I was originally going to buy this entire car, it was a black 92 cutlass, 3.4 / 284. He had just put the clutch in and gave the car to his son to drive. His son told him he backed up then went forward to get the mail and it wouldn't move I'm sure that's what he did I imagine he had it rolling backward at good speed, dropped it in first and dropped the hammer. Whatever he did, he blew the diff. I was going to buy the car and have a local trans guy repair the diff. I had already talked to the guy and he said it would be an easy job if all he did was blow the spider gears, which we found out later is what he did. The car was rusty and had some bondo peeling off the driver's side, but would have made a nice year-round beater for $600. I decided against buying it and since he was pulling the motor for a GP he also had, I asked if I could buy the clutch works, slave and master, shift knob, boot and console piece. IIRC I gave him $150 for the whole works. The clutch looks ok, but the metal looks discolored from heat. It obviously wasn't slipping if it blew the diff. I started the car with everything in it and it went into gear fine, but didn't go anywhere of course. There was no grinding going through the gears with it running, so I'd assume the clutch is fine. The pressure plate and flywheel do look funky (possible glazing). I'm not sure what to think, but seeing as how it gripped good enough to blow the diff, and then was not driven, it should be half decent. I got this all for $150, with a good slave and master, so basicly a free clutch. I do have receipts for the clutch and it was near $600. The slave and master were also less than a year old, and I have the recepits or those too. Here are the pics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w-bodys_are_the_best Posted May 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 I'm going to take both flywheels and pressure plates and show them to my machinist buddy and see what he thinks, may just use the better of each. I will also snap pics of my clutch, I think it's bette than what I have now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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