oz37k Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Hello All, As you guys already know from my last post I have been dumping loads of money into my MC Z34 totaling 2.5k already. Now I have another problem, my ignition switch it sometimes lets my car start and sometimes it does not read the key. I usually let the key sit for a couple seconds and retry and it starts. I figure it is my ignition switch no longer being able to read the VATS key. I had a key made but even that key now is giving me problems. Any input other than what I read on other posts. If not is the switch on the link below is correct, also what are the other parts and are they important to change when changing out the switch. http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/search/?N=1588+9535+4294965596+11921+9225 Thanks for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swift13 Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 i have been working on something with the vats but thats another topic i know that you can loop the 2 wires like they do when installing remote starts, but that would only work for you if the switch wasnt the problem all you do is take the 2 wires coming off the switch and run them together and that would eliminate what ever it is they goto and it would now be just a basic ign switch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubsfan24 Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 Have you tried cleaning both the keys and ignition switch with some electrical cleaner? My 96 Lumina wouldn't start for exactly 3 min if it didn't read the key right. I wouldn't waste any money replacing the switch. I would just bypass it like as shown here: http://vats.likeabigdog.com/ edit: I just re-read your post and if your car starts a couple seconds after not starting I don't know if that bypass will work or not. It might be worth a try though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88red4cyl Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 i have been working on something with the vats but thats another topic i know that you can loop the 2 wires like they do when installing remote starts, but that would only work for you if the switch wasnt the problem all you do is take the 2 wires coming off the switch and run them together and that would eliminate what ever it is they goto and it would now be just a basic ign switch Not quite... You have to build a resistor pack for this to work so the car thinks the key is in and working... If you just put them together without it, it won't start... If you want to do it, check out this site: http://vats.likeabigdog.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swift13 Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 my car is setup like that right now and it starts fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88red4cyl Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 my car is setup like that right now and it starts fine Then you have some kind of bypass for a remote start installed or something... If you just put the wires together like you suggested, then the VATS reader will not see the correct resistance from the key, and the car WILL NOT start... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swift13 Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 there is no remote start on the car theres not even keyless entry anymore al i did was take the 2 wires from the ignition switch and wire them together Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88red4cyl Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 there is no remote start on the car theres not even keyless entry anymore al i did was take the 2 wires from the ignition switch and wire them together What car is that on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swift13 Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 my cutlass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88red4cyl Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 my cutlass Huh... You must have gotten extremely lucky or something since that is not how the system works (to prevent thiefs from doing the same thing)... Oh well, glad it somehow worked for you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swift13 Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 well i still need my vats key to complete the loop but that is the thing i am working on is trying to see if i can get a key made without the chip and see if it will work but i doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88red4cyl Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 well i still need my vats key to complete the loop but that is the thing i am working on is trying to see if i can get a key made without the chip and see if it will work but i doubt it. http://vats.likeabigdog.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oz37k Posted March 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 i have been working on something with the vats but thats another topic i know that you can loop the 2 wires like they do when installing remote starts, but that would only work for you if the switch wasnt the problem all you do is take the 2 wires coming off the switch and run them together and that would eliminate what ever it is they goto and it would now be just a basic ign switch Not quite... You have to build a resistor pack for this to work so the car thinks the key is in and working... If you just put them together without it, it won't start... If you want to do it, check out this site: http://vats.likeabigdog.com/ I was thinking about the bypass but my SECURITY light does not blink. I usually move the key to where I know it touches the pellet inside and retry and it starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88red4cyl Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 I'm sure someone else will chime in, but I believe doing the resistor trick will take care of that problem as well... The reason is because you wire in the value of the pellet prior to the ignition switch, so the ECM thinks the key is in the ignition and everything is working correctly... Then it shouldn't matter if the key is making contact with the reader inside the ignition correctly or not... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubsfan24 Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 Ya, before I did the resistor trick my security light was never on. Even when it didn't start the security light didn't stay lite. I would just do the resistor trick because it is so cheap and should solve any issues with the keys/ignition not being read correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oz37k Posted April 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 Ok, guys. I finally did the resister mod but I am still having problems with the starting. I have learned that I have to pull the lock cylinder out and then start it for it to work. I think I will have to go back to the shop that did my TSS cause ever since they replaced that part I have been having problems. What do you guys think? I want some feedback before I buy a new ignition switch and all. Can someone please tell me if my 1995 MC Z34 has both items in the link below. http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/search/?N=1588+9535+4294965193+9225 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 The resistor mod will only work on the key side of it. If the actual VATS module is failing, then doing the resistor mod will not fix your problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtwmechanic Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 ther are about 20 or so diff values to these chips, each being assigned to the bcm in the car they start. when you get a new cylinder it comes with the blanks to make the key, but the chip does not come installed in the key. gm takes your old key reads it to find the value of the chip orders the right key for your bcm and then cuts it to fit your new cylinder. the wire from the lock to the bcm in the column usually breaks at the cylinder. i have removed the chip from a key before and taken the reader out of a lock cyl. put the chip in the reader solder the reader to the wires under dash and just left it there. this in return makes the nead for a chipped key n/a. it also undermines the anti-theft. this was done on a caddy though! i don't really recommend altering anything it would be better to find the problem and fix it correctly!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oz37k Posted April 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 i don't really recommend altering anything it would be better to find the problem and fix it correctly!!!!!!!!!! This is what I was trying to do. I wanted a temp fix until the parts I ordered were in. When I go to start it the fuel pump primes and the starter clicks, I wait a bit and retry sometimes it starts and sometimes it doesn't until the 3rd try. When I put in the key and turn it all the lights come on, but the security light does not blink, it stays on for a few seconds and then shuts off, is this normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtwmechanic Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 yes either way if you just turn the key to run or if you start the car the light should stay on for about 2-3 seconds hen go out, no blinking. erratic blinking means you have set off the security Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oz37k Posted April 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 So even after adding the resistor and still have the same symptoms could it be the starter since it seems to click when I try to start it. From my understanding the VATS will disable the starter and fuel pump right? My fuel pump primes like normal and when I go to start it it just clicks. I replaced the starter about 4 yrs ago, do you guys think it is time for a new one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtwmechanic Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 using a multi-meter probe ign wire at starter turn key to start car a monitor the voltage. if voltage goes from 0-roughly same as battery and the starter doesn't turn over then replace starter(providing your + cable has a good connection from the battery to the starter also) if voltage doesn't go up then go to fuse box and check all fuses and let me know what you find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88red4cyl Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 So even after adding the resistor and still have the same symptoms could it be the starter since it seems to click when I try to start it. From my understanding the VATS will disable the starter and fuel pump right? My fuel pump primes like normal and when I go to start it it just clicks. I replaced the starter about 4 yrs ago, do you guys think it is time for a new one? The starter or solenoid on the starter could be on its way out... I would check the battery wires, alternator cable, and starter cable, plus all the grounds to make sure they are all tight... I actually had a Ford truck do this to me a few weeks ago.. Everything would go on when I turned the key, but the starter would just click... Sometimes it would start, and sometimes it wouldn't when you turned the key.. It ended up being the starter cable had a bunch of corrosion on it and it wasn't making thaat good of contact to always start the truck. Before you go any further on chasing down the VATS demon, I would check out your cables.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oz37k Posted April 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 Update: Yesterday I found a little trick, when I set in the key and turn it without starting the SECURITY light stays on for more than 2-3 seconds, it stays on solid, I turn and only clicks. Then when the security light goes out I turn the key again and it starts. Why does it only let me start the car after the light goes out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtwmechanic Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 sounds like it my be having a hard time reading your chip, or the chip is fine and the bcm is having issues of its own. probally won't matter,but try resetting the comp. caddy's make you wait 3 minutes sometimes before they will start(similar system) if they think they have been tampered with. did you test voltage at ignition wire where it attaches to starter when you first try to start? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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