Dark Ride Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 Alright, so I've decided for numerous reasons that I want to do an OBD II swap and when I do I want to swap in a 3800 to the TGP. I plan on using a NA 3800 and turbocharging it. I'm curious as to what year and model would be the best to use as a donor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 Alright, so I've decided for numerous reasons that I want to do an OBD II swap and when I do I want to swap in a 3800 to the TGP. I plan on using a NA 3800 and turbocharging it. I'm curious as to what year and model would be the best to use as a donor. I haven't done a swap before, but I'd figure a 96 regal would be a good donor. Its a 1st gen W-body with a Series 2 3800. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOT2B GM Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 maybe even a 98-99 LTZ / Z34 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 I'd get as new and low mileage of an engine as you can afford and are willing to spend.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaloutsider Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 Putting a 3800 into a TGP is incredibly But.. the engine doesn't really matter. You need to worry more about the wiring harness you're going to use. (better yet, don't use a 3800 at all) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Ride Posted January 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Putting a 3800 into a TGP is incredibly But.. the engine doesn't really matter. You need to worry more about the wiring harness you're going to use. (better yet, don't use a 3800 at all) What harness would you recommend? What engine would be a better option? maybe even a 98-99 LTZ / Z34 That would probably work, would that harness work well? It would probably be almost bolt-in except the harness. I'm also curious about the differences in years for the 3800's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breakdown Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 What harness would you recommend? What engine would be a better option? 3900, good luck finding one from a late model Impala. That's just my opinion, I'm sure that only two or more people out of 1,000 will actually second it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaloutsider Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 For simplicity's sake, i'd try to find the harness out of a 98 or so Monte Z34 with the 3800, since it probably shares much more in common with your car than most other ones (i.e 2nd gen regal/gp, etc.) I actually have one of these in my basement. Let more people chime in, and if you're interested, shoot me an offer. Personally, I'd be content with the 3.1 and not bother swapping it. People are getting nice power and speed out of the 3.1 with mostly stock internals and just turbo/exhaust/tuning upgrades. The 3800 would be a sacrilege, and I think you'd have a lot of trouble with the 3900 and it's VCT and AFM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euro Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 I think you should keep the T3.1 first of all!!!!!! Any other 1st Gen GP I'd say go for it, but for heaven's sake it's a Turbo Grand Prix! However, easiest cars to find for the wiring and stuff would be a 96 Regal, or the 98/99 Monte Carlo Z34 or Lumina LTZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfewtrail Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Does the 1990 subframe have provisions for the 3800 mounting anyways? I can't remember about that stuff since it's been so long since anyone discussed it. I was under the impression that 91+ can accept a 3800, but prior to that, you need to swap the subframe for a later model one. EDIT: In any case, I'd keep the turbo 3.1. A turbo upgrade can make a big difference... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaloutsider Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Actually, you are correct, Matt. A 88-90 wouldn't have the subframe provisions, so you'd need a 91+ frame. Like we said, keep the 3.1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White93z34 Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 actually a 1990 subframe can mount a 3800 just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Ride Posted January 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Well I'm considering it because the 3.1 in there now is toast. Considering the shape it was in when I got it basically given to me, its amazing it runs at all. I'm guessing the seals on the turbo went out when the oil return line failed and they assumed the motor was bad and quit maintaining it. The car has 200K on it anyway. The transmission fluid looked like engine oil after 5000 miles, so while the tranny isn't actually toast yet, I know it won't take much more. Turbo leaks both oil and antifreeze (or I have a bad headgasket.) There is a short in the harness somewhere because it will drain the battery if I leave the battery connected for more than a month. By the time I added all these things to together, it seemed like it might be smarter to swap in a whole new setup. I figured swap to OBD II, get a 4T65-E with the possibility of converting to an HD tranny later. And since I wasn't going to keep the 3.1, I might as well go big, with a motor that has more potential. If I found a lumina LTZ I could take the wiring harness, engine, trans, subframe, bigger knuckles, and CV Shafts. As close to a direct swap as a person could ask for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 I think that a turbo 3800 is a great option. The HP potential you will have with that route is far greater then that of a 3.1 setup. The purists on this for will say nothing other then a 3.1 should go in that car but if you want that car to have the potential to be fast instead of potential to be quick go with the turbo 3800 and obdII. IMHO of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no1kicker Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 I’ve never driven a TGP with a bigger turbo than stock. But the 3800 turbo has a completely different feel. I think a 3800 turbo is a great choice. As of this year there are at least four different turbo kits to choose from designed to fit 97+ models. The kits could probably be used on your car with little modification. To do it right however is going to cost a lot. 3800 engine – you could get a whole L67 eng/trans/acc/harness dropout for ~1000-2500 depending on year and condition. The L32/L26 used a returnless fuel system, different O2, and electronic TB which you wouldn’t use. Turbo kit – a used Cartuning kit can be found for ~ 1800-3000 depending on options. Other choices are Stattama, Z7, and coming out soon Z9. Be wary of CT customer support, or lack of for some people. Trans – you will need a built trans sooner or later. ~3500 new or cheaper used. I have read that you can use a 2003+ trans which is stronger from the factory with a 2003 pcm. What I would do, and this is just my opinion: get a high mileage dropout for cheap, also a very low mile L32 longblock, get the trans rebuilt with upgrades or use it as a core, add rockers/cam, and turbo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euro Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 I think that a turbo 3800 is a great option. The HP potential you will have with that route is far greater then that of a 3.1 setup. The purists on this for will say nothing other then a 3.1 should go in that car but if you want that car to have the potential to be fast instead of potential to be quick go with the turbo 3800 and obdII. IMHO of course That's my response to 99% of these types of requests, however I just can't see a TGP without the LG5. Even though it would still technically be a Turbo Grand Prix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwmin Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 yep, def harness from a 3800 Monte/Lumi. as far as the engine, g-bodies and such have different mounts, so it's easiest to get the engine out of a W Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Ride Posted January 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 3800 engine you could get a whole L67 eng/trans/acc/harness dropout for ~1000-2500 depending on year and condition. The L32/L26 used a returnless fuel system, different O2, and electronic TB which you wouldnt use. At this point I was thinking of staying with the L36 for sake of simplicity of the swap. How much better is the Series III over the Series II? Turbo kit a used Cartuning kit can be found for ~ 1800-3000 depending on options. Other choices are Stattama, Z7, and coming out soon Z9. Be wary of CT customer support, or lack of for some people. I was looking at the Stattama kits, I know they are expensive as hell, and I would probably do that once I get the motor, trans, OBD II swap done, but it seems to me that they have the best kit out there. What have you heard? Trans you will need a built trans sooner or later. ~3500 new or cheaper used. I have read that you can use a 2003+ trans which is stronger from the factory with a 2003 pcm. I'll probably use the trans that comes out of the same car I get the motor and harness from. I've heard that the swap is easier and causes less headaches if they all come from the same car. But what have you heard about ZZP trans? They aren't too far from me, so I wouldn't have to pay shipping. Thanks for the support too, I hoped some people would like my idea. I figure if I'm going to do a bigger turbo and swap the top end since the 3.1 topends were far from ideal, why bother keeping the 3.1 at all. And like Euro said, it is still technically a Turbo Grand Prix, its just a bigger engine and turbo. It will be fast thats for sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no1kicker Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 The series 3 motors IIRC have stronger rods. Some say L32 heads have bigger valves than the L67. But it's just easier to find one with low mileage. A member of the local board got an 07 L26 with 9k miles for under 1000. But a series 2 will be fine. I've also heard good things about Stattama. And I think that's the only kit that can use headers. used one for sale: http://www.clubgp.com/newforum/tm.asp?m=4695185 I don't run a ZZP trans but do have some of its parts: TC, input shaft, 4th clutch, chain. Don't use a protorque TC! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted To Boost Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 I think you should keep a LG5 in there, but thats just my opinion. 3800 sound like ass anyway TGP without LG5 isn't a real TGP anymore IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaloutsider Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 I think you should keep a LG5 in there, but thats just my opinion. 3800 sound like ass anyway TGP without LG5 isn't a real TGP anymore IMO !!! This man is speaking the gospel. Please save the TGP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 lol.... Makes me chuckle with what may happen with my TGP... Either turbo L26 or turbo LQ1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euro Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 I think you should keep a LG5 in there, but thats just my opinion. 3800 sound like ass anyway TGP without LG5 isn't a real TGP anymore IMO Agreed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRONDOG442 Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 LX-5 or bail ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 LX-5 or bail ! Cant readily tune it, so that made me decide against it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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