xtremerevolution Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 I've decided to finally start on my project putting in ES poly control arm bushings in the regal. However, I seem to have run into a bit of a problem; I simply can't get the control arm off! The ball joint had been replaced before, so I have a nut there instead of a rivet. So I removed that nut, but the control arm won't budge. I tried removing the bolts from the subframe end of the control arm, but after removing the nut, the bolt just spins in place and I can't hammer it out. When I do try to unscrew the bolt, you can tell that the rubber is catching on, which is probably why they won't hammer out. The area is also too small to fit a c-clamp in order to force the bolt out. So I have a few questions. 1. Do I need to remove the strut assembly in order to remove the control arm? 2. If I don't need to remove the strut assembly in order to remove the control arm, how do I get the control arm loose? 3. How do I get the control arm bolts off? I've heard you either need a press or a good torch to get the bushings out once you can get access to them. I plan to butcher the bushings with my dremel until they come out since I don't have either of those available to me. Any help here would be appreciated. I have till the 11th of January to get this job done, after which I take my long drive back to California. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted December 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 Not many people really mess with the control arms, or even the bushings for that matter, so you will probably have to give it some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dohc v6 Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 To get the control arm off you just take the two bolts off the frame. I know that you need a socket and wrench to get these off. Then just take the nut off the ball joint and use a Gm ball joint tool pop the ball joint and take the two bolts off the sway bar and just do some wiggling and it will come out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 If you have the bolt into the bushing area all the way, and cannot hit it with a hammer anymore, a cheap way would be to put a screwdriver in there and hit the screwdriver with the hammer. Not necessarily recommended, but may get it out. BTW, do you have the control arm supported as well? Could be that the control arm is wanting to come down (gravity), however is still being held into place by the bolts. There is enough weight there to keep the bolts from sliding out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted December 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 If you have the bolt into the bushing area all the way, and cannot hit it with a hammer anymore, a cheap way would be to put a screwdriver in there and hit the screwdriver with the hammer. Not necessarily recommended, but may get it out. BTW, do you have the control arm supported as well? Could be that the control arm is wanting to come down (gravity), however is still being held into place by the bolts. There is enough weight there to keep the bolts from sliding out. I already tried supporting the sway bar with varying amounts of pressure from my bottle jack, but those bolts still don't move. I also tried with the screwdriver, without any luck there either. Its hard enough getting them to rotate, let alone move in and out. Hell, I even tried to hammer a chisel between the socket end of the bolt and the subframe to pry it out, and that didn't work either. When you hammer the bolts, you can feel the rubber absorbing a good amount of the impact. To get the control arm off you just take the two bolts off the frame. I know that you need a socket and wrench to get these off. Then just take the nut off the ball joint and use a Gm ball joint tool pop the ball joint and take the two bolts off the sway bar and just do some wiggling and it will come out. The problem I'm having is getting the two bolts off the frame. Actually, I'm having trouble getting them to move at all! It took some doing getting the nuts off, and it took an incredible amount of force to get the bolts to rotate at all, as they had been seized up. Keep in mind these are 191,000 mile control arm bushings. Its as if the bushings swelled up and siezed up the bolts. When you try to rotate the bolt with a socket wrench, you can definitely feel the rubber grabbing on. I started on the passenger side. The front bolt is easier to move, but I can't make the left bolt rotate without an insane amount of force. I already removed the sway bar bolts. I just spent another hour trying to get those bolts to loosen up and couldn't do anything. I literally soaked them with some bolt buster spray and they still don't move. If I can't get them to move after half an hour tomorrow, I'm seriously going to take a dremel to the bolts, cut off both ends, and buy some new bolts at the Ace down the street to replace them. Its seriously that bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 You will want to buy the correct bolts, which are hardedned and made to withstand the loads that they receive. Which, will be GM only. Try heat yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dohc v6 Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 Never cut them man, thats just lazy. Try heat like slick said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted December 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 I have some old coleman torch that I tried heating them up with, but that didn't work very well at all as its not anywhere near as powerful as I need it to be. I might head down to Lowe's to pick up a better torch to do some real damage tomorrow if that's my only option. So what do I heat up with this torch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 The end of the control arm/frame where the bolt is sitting in the bushing. Enough to either make the bushing more pliable or to melt it out. That, or if you keep it there long enough, maybe you can get the metal to expand. I wouldn't heat up the bolt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dohc v6 Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 DONT HEAT THE BOLT. If you heat the bolt it will only get worse, as it will expand. Try and heat the bushings. Once you can get alot of the rubber away from the bushings you should be able to get to the metal sleeve that was once captured inside the rubber. If you can get the torch on the spacer then it should free up the bolt. Remember to put the nut back on the end so you dont "mushroom" the end of the bolt when hitting it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted December 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 DONT HEAT THE BOLT. If you heat the bolt it will only get worse, as it will expand. Try and heat the bushings. Once you can get alot of the rubber away from the bushings you should be able to get to the metal sleeve that was once captured inside the rubber. If you can get the torch on the spacer then it should free up the bolt. Remember to put the but back on the end so you dont "mushroom" the end. Sounds good. I'll see what I end up with after that's all done. Hopefully heat will fix my problem. These poly bushings better make a big difference over the 191,000 mile OEM rubber bushings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dohc v6 Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 Umm, yeah. Thats a rhetorical question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted December 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 Alright, got a MAP/Pro torch. Seems that the propane I was using wasn't anywhere near as powerful as I need it to heat anything up. I'll get back in the garage in about an hour and I'll let you guys know how it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted December 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 Alright, i torched up that bushing like there's no tomorrow, and after I had burned off near all the rubber, I noticed something. There's a shim/sleeve as part of the bushing (duh). The bolt goes in through the metal sleeve. Notice that little metal thing inside all of the bushings on the right? Yeah, that's siezed up to the bolt. The one that's on the OE bushings has a crease down the middle, so you can kind of split it. I split it as well as I could in that small opening I had and soaked it with some bolt buster, but that didn't help anything either. Friday I'm calling the dealer's parts department to see how much some OE "control arm to subframe" bolts are. Unless anyone else has any ideas, I'm going to just cut the bolts. Is there a way that I can find hardened bolts at a place like Lowe's, Home Depot, or ACE for this purpose? If its at all possible, I'd definitely prefer that option. I'm seriously wondering if I'd really run into any issues using non-GM bolts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 If your buying anywhere from GM, your going to have to buy from a specialty supply store. No place like Homie Depot, Lowe's, Ace, or anything of those likes will have the correct stuff. Really, you need to buy them from GM. And, they will NOT be cheap. Hence why you don't want to heat up the bolt or cut it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted December 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 If your buying anywhere from GM, your going to have to buy from a specialty supply store. No place like Homie Depot, Lowe's, Ace, or anything of those likes will have the correct stuff. Really, you need to buy them from GM. And, they will NOT be cheap. Hence why you don't want to heat up the bolt or cut it up. How much can they possibly charge me for 4 bolts? I mean, as long as its not more than $5 a bolt, I'll be fine. Of course, I always have the option of hitting up a junk yard if they're really **that** expensive, and hoping that the JY bolts aren't siezed up as well. I'm just wondering how much force can possibly be put on one of those bolts to where it will actually matter. Then again, I'm no expert either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted January 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 Bump... Any ideas? I need to have this car on the road by the 11th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 Truthfully, the caliper bracket to knucle bolts, for our Bonnevilles, are $20 each. The type and quality of bolts that are used cannot be bought off of a parts store shelf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted January 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 Truthfully, the caliper bracket to knucle bolts, for our Bonnevilles, are $20 each. The type and quality of bolts that are used cannot be bought off of a parts store shelf. Just called Chevrolet and they looked it up. The part is $4.25 a bolt, but its discontinued. The size is 12mm x 1.75 thread pitch x 92.1mm length, and he mentioned that any hardened bolt would do. I'll make some local calls. Edit... Found them. http://www.boltdepot.com/metric-hex-bolts.aspx I'll be ordering 4 of the bolts steel grade 10.9, "Best for automotive use and other areas where high strength is needed," and 4 matching grade nuts. $23.30 shipped for all 4 bolts, nuts, and 3 day UPS shipping. I'll pick up 4 washers later if I need them. Time to bust out the dremel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 Well that ain't too bad then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWeb80 Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 My bolts popped of with NO problem. Threw the wrenches on there and a little body weight and off they came. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted March 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 My bolts popped of with NO problem. Threw the wrenches on there and a little body weight and off they came. Awesome! How did the rest of it go? Did you manage to press those bushings in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWeb80 Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 yeah...I updated your other thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfangd Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 ok last year i had a 97 gp gt that had the same problem and i tried everything to free the sleeve from the bolt with no help. It was the front bolt that goes up from the bottom, i got the nut off and the torx head bolt just spun. I burned off all of the rubber and tried to open the sleeve, hold the sleeve with vicegrips, everything you could think of all the way down to going under the hood and pulling the airbox and beating the bolt which did nothing. Long story short i cut the bolt on the top side and bottom side with a cutoff wheel, tried like hell finding a replacement bolt which was impossible so i went to my local yard and got so lucky that i stripped 2 GPs of all of the control arm bolts lol. GOod luck to you. If you need a bolt i can sell you one with the nut if it will work for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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