normal braking? UPDATE 12/8 Fronts done

[88Regal Limited]

Well after blowing a line, and having chris help me out and find some bullshit adapter thing to go from metric to the master cyl, the car finally stops, sort of. The rotors look good (could probably use cut) and the pads look nice as well. all the brakes do work, they just, well, suck. They won't lock up on pavement, and only the fronts lock up on gravel, but I know the rears DO work as it will stop the wheels a good bit on jackstands. Do W-body brakes really suck this bad?

 

All 4 corners bled the proper order, RR, LR, RF, LF. Bled 3 or 4 times per wheel and it still seems off.... I think I just don't like W-body brakes. Hopefully something isn't fucked up too bad.

 

Also found an overhead console out of a blazer and it looks like it'll fit good, so we'll see how that goes.

[ManicMechanic]

Yes, W body brakes do suck this bad.

[Addicted To Boost]

They should work better than that..

 

My 89 GP without ABS would lock all 4 wheels on pavement.

[oldscsc]

Mine with ABS won't lock up on pavement. Stupid organic brake pads I assume they've been changed since factory but Mine stops pretty well, you just have to push the pedal through the floor to get it to throw you forward. It's got bad pedal feel but stops well if that makes sense.

[kwk39018]

Buy good pads.Thats what i did and it helped, not race car brakes but better then it was. And yes they do suck becouse the car is heavy.

[88Regal Limited]

mine will throw you forward just hard enough to get the seat locks to lock, which isn't much. It won't lock the wheels and the damn tires are bald.

 

There's something amiss if they won't even lock up. Any ideas? I hope the calipers aren't shot. And these pads might be cheapish but they have a lot of life left in them on all 4 corners.

 

I'm thinking from the gravel test that the rears aren't working how they should, they won't lock up. Anything I should look at first?

[White93z34]

i think we need to give the rears some attention, i'll bet money that the sliders in the rear calipers are seized up solid. other then that i'd say they just need use, considering the car was last on the road in 2005. prolly wouldn't hurt to give all 4 rotors a clean up cut.

[Night Fury]

My CS ones suck. I miss my Ciera brakes... If you stomped on the pedal hard and quick enough... The car felt as though it would tip over forward!

[rockfangd]

i think they suck. My brakes have their days lol

[Euro]

Yes, 1st gen W body brakes do suck this bad.

 

fixed. Night and day difference between the GP's brakes and my Lumina's.

[jerry455]

my tgp brakes fine. replaced accumulator about 6 months ago. it stops really well won't lock up because it has anti lock brakes it will throw you forward. just used the best pads that autozone had 2 years ago.

[Masterchief362]

My CS brakes all work, the rear have all new calipers, rotors, and pads and the fronts are only about a year old... and it still sucks to say the least... you have to push the pedal quite a bit to feel a decent amount of stopping power... the ABS has been broken for 10years at least lol, but I have not tried to lock them up on pavement before... maybe I will give it a shot... I doubt it will however.

[oldscsc]

my tgp brakes fine. replaced accumulator about 6 months ago. it stops really well won't lock up because it has anti lock brakes it will throw you forward. just used the best pads that autozone had 2 years ago.

 

Despite whether or not a car has ABS, it will lock up. The difference is it won't stay locked up which lets you steer to a certain extent.

[5speedz34]

i think we need to give the rears some attention, i'll bet money that the sliders in the rear calipers are seized up solid. other then that i'd say they just need use, considering the car was last on the road in 2005. prolly wouldn't hurt to give all 4 rotors a clean up cut.

 

^What he said.

 

I've always heard that PMIII set-up (when working) is amazing. I think the problem with our Vacuum brakes is the size of the MC and the booster.

 

Every W I've owned has had a stiff pedal with little travel and you have to kinda stand on it to get it to stop. Really sad IMO.

[xtremerevolution]

IMO w-body brakes aren't that bad. Mine take a bit more effort than they do on the Bonneville, but they stop, extremely well. I have ceramic pads all around and drilled rotors in the front, and I have no problem braking to the point where ABS engages. Keep in mind that its really hard to get ABS to engage with the tires I'm using, as they're the next best thing to drag racing slicks when it comes to traction. I know this because from a very hard brake from 60-0, I can smell the smoke coming from the front pads and I find my chest pressing pretty tightly on the locked up seat belt. You must have something seriously wrong if you can barely stop that well.

[White93z34]

you also have the "improved" brakes. bigger rears, bigger fronts. "better" brake booster.

[1990lumina]

Check for a vacuum leak on the line to the booster. Might not be getting 100% assist. My Lumina brakes have always blown donkey balls as well though - I just got used to it, and now after driving my TSX and then going to the Lumina - and then back to the TSX I almost put myself through the windshield the first stop sign lol.

[Schurkey]

http://www.w-body.com/forum/index.php?topic=63764.0

 

MY theory--based on limited experience but believed to be correct--is that the BRAKES are fine on the first generation of W-bodies, but the vacuum-operated brake BOOSTER is a piece of shit.

 

Two cars, two defective boosters. Replaced both boosters with plain, ol' ordinary stock replacement parts from CarQuest. Whatever part number they recommend for the '92 and '93 Lumina. (i.e., not a special upgraded larger-diameter booster from a newer model.)

 

There is a night-and-day difference in stopping power.

 

The "problem" is the booster wears out/becomes defective, not the rotors, pads, caliper slides, etc.

[mra32]

http://www.w-body.com/forum/index.php?topic=63764.0

 

MY theory--based on limited experience but believed to be correct--is that the BRAKES are fine on the first generation of W-bodies, but the vacuum-operated brake BOOSTER is a piece of shit.

 

Two cars, two defective boosters.  Replaced both boosters with plain, ol' ordinary stock replacement parts from CarQuest.  Whatever part number they recommend for the '92 and '93 Lumina.  (i.e., not a special upgraded larger-diameter booster from a newer model.)   

 

There is a night-and-day difference in stopping power.

 

The "problem" is the booster wears out/becomes defective, not the rotors, pads, caliper slides, etc.

 

I back this. and I dont mind how hard the pedal is to push...my brakes stop more than well enough. You guys should try driving a fully manual racecar for a few laps. It requires alot of endurance.

 

I dont even want to think about driving a typical road car without power assist. The power assist is what i use to help me get my axle nut off. Same with my friend in his VW. I was in his car with both feet on the pedal as hard as i could press and he was still spinning the axle around. once we started it up, i didnt even have to press that hard.

 

The brakes themselves work fine. I can understand dissing the pedal feel, but not the brakes themselves. Does anyone with supreme GM Parts knowlege know if another booster from a different car will swap over to make the pedal feel a little lighter? Or Schurkey, was a new unit that much of a difference? Like bring it up to new car status pedal feel good?

[Schurkey]

http://www.w-body.com/forum/index.php?topic=63764.0

 

 

There is a night-and-day difference in stopping power.

 

Does anyone with supreme GM Parts knowlege know if another booster from a different car will swap over to make the pedal feel a little lighter?

Yeah, just get one for a newer W body--I suppose a '98 Lumina would be a suitable donor. Others have swapped to this larger-diameter booster. As for me, I don't think it's needed! The stock booster is just fine--WHEN IT WORKS PROPERLY.

 

Or Schurkey, was a new unit that much of a difference? Like bring it up to new car status pedal feel good?

It was a H-U-G-E difference. Please read the posts in the link I included.--yeah, I understand that's a lot of text to read. Short story: I used to need two feet on the pedal to stop the car, and even then the anti-lock wouldn't rattle unless I was on ice. Now, things are wonderful.

[5speedz34]

you also have the "improved" brakes. bigger rears, bigger fronts. "better" brake booster.

 

What year did they change boosters? How much bigger did they go?! Is the bigger booster even an option with manual cars? Clutch hydraulics, that brace thing that it bolts to is probably different too?

 

The thing for me is the brakes are stiff and I really feel like I'm going to hit someone. It's like pushing non-power assist almost. I hit the pedal little to no travel and I don't stop.

 

 

[gpchris]

Yes, 1st gen W body brakes do suck this bad.

 

fixed. Night and day difference between the GP's brakes and my Lumina's.

 

What year was your lumina? The newer first gens got a larger booster.. My 95 stops just as good as our 07 GP GT.

[5speedz34]

His was a '94. Since it was a Lumina though, it didn't get any of the upgrades for that year.

 

I find that really hard to believe that a stock 94-96 W-body stops as well as a 07 GP.

[88Regal Limited]

hmmm if everything goes well with the inspection I may have to try replacing the booster with a newer one. So which ones SHOULD fit alright with no/minimal mods?

[cutty]

hmmm if everything goes well with the inspection I may have to try replacing the booster with a newer one. So which ones SHOULD fit alright with no/minimal mods?

 

Bring it down to me if you want i have my inspection and emission license.