gmrulz4u Posted August 15, 2003 Report Share Posted August 15, 2003 I was doing a lot of idling today because I live in Southern Ontario and of course all the traffic lights were out, so every intersection was a 4-way Stop. My 89 Supreme was doing good, the primary cooling fan cycled on a few times during my hour long + driving... BUT, I go to a variety store to buy bread, and when I get back in the car, I go to start it, and NOTHING! Now, it's only done this once before, about 1 month ago when again, I had been doing a lot of city driving and the engine was really hot...it wouldn't crank, wouldn't do anything... So, I pulled out my Scanner, hooked it up, and saw that my Engine Coolant Temperature was showing 246 degrees!!! This is the highest that I have ever seen it. So, I thought maybe the ECM has a built-in safety function that will NOT allow the engine to turn-over if it's getting a reading from the ECT Sensor that it's too high or whatever, is this possible!??? I figure that if the Primary fan kicks in at 227, and the Secondary is supposed to turn-on around 230 something, why would the ECM let the engine start if it saw the temperature was way ABOVE these figures?? That's actually one thing I did notice for a while, and I'm not sure if it's normal, I'm talking about the fact that my engine coolant temperature RISES for about the first 5-10 minutes after shutting the engine OFF. Is this normal or what?? I thought that as soon as an engine was no longer running, the temperature would start dropping immediately?? Do I have a possible cooling system problem?? I just don't know if it's a coincidence that as SOON as my Scanner showed the ECT below 227 degrees, the engine started!!?? I know it could be the Starter Solenoid or Ignition Switch, but the above mentioned coincidence just makes that hard to believe... ANYONE?? THANKS! PS It's not the Park/Neutral switch because I played with the shifter at least 5 times and it made NO difference... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robby1870 Posted August 15, 2003 Report Share Posted August 15, 2003 The ECT value should rise after you turn it off. There is nothing to cool the coolant anymore, cuz no water is circulating throug the radiator, so it will rise for a little bit, then come down. Robby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted August 15, 2003 Report Share Posted August 15, 2003 normal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmrulz4u Posted August 15, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2003 OK, but is the NOT STARTING because of the really high ECT "normal"?? Or was it just coincidence that my car started fine as soon as the ECT was below 227 degrees? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted August 15, 2003 Report Share Posted August 15, 2003 Mine always started no matter what temp, maybe you have a sensor sensitive to excess h3at Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmrulz4u Posted August 15, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2003 OK, so if we just assume that it had nothing to do with the engine temperature, what are the other causes of NO CRANKING... I would turn the key, and absolutely nothing would happen...no noises at all...I wait for about 10 minutes, trying again about every 1-2 minutes, and then all of a sudden it cranks and starts fine...? I read online that you can do some simple tests like turning on the headlights and trying to start the engine, if the lights go out while the key is in the START position, it means there's a poor connection from the battery to the starter etc... Anything to add?? What are all the symptoms for an engine not cranking? And what the heck would make HEAT the main enemy?? THANKS AGAIN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHCRagtopguy Posted August 15, 2003 Report Share Posted August 15, 2003 Try giving the starter a whack or two. When they get worn inside, the brushes hang up causing the circuit not to be completed. I don't really think it is heat related, that is probably just coincidental. Just my 2 cents-good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slade901 Posted August 15, 2003 Report Share Posted August 15, 2003 My mom's van would do the same thing. When the temperature reaches 220 or more or if the temperature outside is very very hot, once they turn off the engine and then tried to start it, the van would not start, no noises, engine won't turn over. They have to wait till the engine cools down a bit then then can start the car. I've solved that problem by wrapping the starter solenoid/starter with a high temp/heat resistant cloth. Basically, it is a starter heat shield kit but not the metal type. After I have installed it, no more problems with no start due to high temperature. What happens is that the starter solenoid/starter is pretty close to the exhaust manifold and pretty much exposed at the bottom against the heat on the road. Those two combination heats up the starter solenoid/starter and the current from the battery would not be enough to supply the starter solenoid/starter while it is still very hot. Once the temperature around the starter solenoid/starter goes down a bit then they function again and turns over the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHCRagtopguy Posted August 15, 2003 Report Share Posted August 15, 2003 That makes sense. Now that I think of it, I had a 65 Impala SS that had a 327 in it and whever that sucker was really hot and shut off in the summer, it would barely crank until it cooled off. That starter was located close to the exhaust. I yield to your knowledge! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sl3196 Posted August 15, 2003 Report Share Posted August 15, 2003 I test drove a grand prix a few years back and it did the same thing. Found out it was vapor locked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmrulz4u Posted August 15, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2003 What year Grand Prix was this? And, what exactly does VAPOR LOCKED mean?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5speedz34 Posted August 16, 2003 Report Share Posted August 16, 2003 I think its were water hits the block when its hot and causes it to crack and then get vapor in the motor and lockup. I had a friend who's sisiter drove her escort( i think thats how its spelled. ) zx2 through water and did that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slade901 Posted August 16, 2003 Report Share Posted August 16, 2003 Check this out. http://www.misterfixit.com/vaprlock.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannymik Posted August 16, 2003 Report Share Posted August 16, 2003 I've owned my Cutlass for a little more than 5 yrs now and have had that happen to me like 10 times. My first reaction after doing a voltage test on it was the ignition switch. I cleaned the connections on the starter and checked my battery, all were testing good. I did read on some forum about this problem and the answer was always the ignition switch. I just hope that if mine goes for good I'm not to far from home! Thats my 2 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sl3196 Posted August 16, 2003 Report Share Posted August 16, 2003 The grand prix was a 92 i think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbit_69 Posted August 16, 2003 Report Share Posted August 16, 2003 YO, gmrulz4u i am in london to, how did you like the power failure. e-mail me or some thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pogo420 Posted August 19, 2003 Report Share Posted August 19, 2003 My Car is doing the EXACT same thing, well i never took its tempature but every time it gets hot it doesn't wanna start at all!!! accesorys work but no crank no tick no nothing!!! but i've been able to start it right away if i get some one to jump it, never had the patients to let it cool off~ HELP!!!! please :shock: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWeb80 Posted August 19, 2003 Report Share Posted August 19, 2003 I think its were water hits the block when its hot and causes it to crack and then get vapor in the motor and lockup. I had a friend who's sisiter drove her escort( i think thats how its spelled. ) zx2 through water and did that. What?.......I'm not trying to be an ass, but think again. It has to do with the fuel lines not water on the engine block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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