New w-body!!! Need advice.

[ismellrealbad]

ive seen it as little as 35k

[88red4cyl]

It will not show any signs externally. none. what happens is the area around the EGR tube gets brittle and breaks internally, and when that happens you get a hydrolocked engine rather fast.

 

At what mileage does this usually happen to people? Is it something I need to worry about that bad?

 

I'm curious about this too.. The 99 still has the original upper intake at ~135K miles.... How much would a shop charge to replace this (and I assume do the LIM too if it is necessary on this motor)?

if you brought the parts yourself, i cant see a shop that knows what they are doing charging for more than 2 hours labor. it really is easy. you can do it.

 

 

I had a shop quote me $400 to do the LIM on my 3100, so I would suppose the LIM job on this motor would be substantially less then?

[BIGBULS]

I'd like to add something that has been overlooked in this thread so far.......

 

The REASON the upper intake shells out (melts usually) and hydrolocks the engine is because the older style LOWER intakes have a larger EGR tube that causes the concern (it gets too hot, then the limited clearance usually warps the UIM right by the coolant passages for the TB, then said coolant gets sucked in and voila!....hydrolock city).

 

So replacing the UPPER intake and gaskets will fix the current leak, but sooner or later it WILL re-occur.

 

I would also STRONGLY recomend replacing the aluminum lower intake as well. It's pricey from the dealer, but with all-new gaskets, I don't really see why a used unit couldn't be.......used.

 

 

 

 

BTW.......the redesigned LIM's are on 01+ 3800 Series II's (and some 00's).

[BIGBULS]

I had a shop quote me $400 to do the LIM on my 3100, so I would suppose the LIM job on this motor would be substantially less then?

 

I'm at $80 and hour and use GM parts (at list price) and usually LIM/UIM combo's on 3800 Series II's are about $1000-1100 parts and labor unless they have badly fouled the plugs and/or broken the nose off of the starter...........this can push it as high as $1800.

 

 

 

For comparisons sake, a 3100/3400 LIM set is usually in the %700-750 ballpark with tax added (7% locally here).

[BIGBULS]

It will not show any signs externally. none. what happens is the area around the EGR tube gets brittle and breaks internally, and when that happens you get a hydrolocked engine rather fast.

 

See my post above.........the ones *I* see are usually warped from heat (although many are also brittle).

[BIGBULS]

Oh...........and when you flush the old stuff out, dump Dexcool back in.

 

I know it's controversial, but *I* have seen too many 96+ cars (more than a dozen over the last 2-3 years now) loose water pumps 12-24 months after swapping to green coolant for it to be a conincidence (especially since this is one of the maint hings that GM says will fail).

[xtremerevolution]

I'd like to add something that has been overlooked in this thread so far.......

 

The REASON the upper intake shells out (melts usually) and hydrolocks the engine is because the older style LOWER intakes have a larger EGR tube that causes the concern (it gets too hot, then the limited clearance usually warps the UIM right by the coolant passages for the TB, then said coolant gets sucked in and voila!....hydrolock city).

 

So replacing the UPPER intake and gaskets will fix the current leak, but sooner or later it WILL re-occur.

 

I would also STRONGLY recomend replacing the aluminum lower intake as well. It's pricey from the dealer, but with all-new gaskets, I don't really see why a used unit couldn't be.......used.

 

 

 

 

BTW.......the redesigned LIM's are on 01+ 3800 Series II's (and some 00's).

 

Is there any way around this issue? Is there clearance enough to wrap that EGR tube in something to keep its heat from spreading? I haven't yet worked on this engine so I really wouldn't know.

[Crazy K]

Oh...........and when you flush the old stuff out, dump Dexcool back in.

 

I know it's controversial, but *I* have seen too many 96+ cars (more than a dozen over the last 2-3 years now) loose water pumps 12-24 months after swapping to green coolant for it to be a conincidence (especially since this is one of the maint hings that GM says will fail).

DISAGREEMENT.

 

the waterpump is cheap enough... change it when you convert!

[88red4cyl]

I had a shop quote me $400 to do the LIM on my 3100, so I would suppose the LIM job on this motor would be substantially less then?

 

I'm at $80 and hour and use GM parts (at list price) and usually LIM/UIM combo's on 3800 Series II's are about $1000-1100 parts and labor unless they have badly fouled the plugs and/or broken the nose off of the starter...........this can push it as high as $1800.

 

 

 

For comparisons sake, a 3100/3400 LIM set is usually in the %700-750 ballpark with tax added (7% locally here).

 

I don't understand why the 3800 is so much more costly.. From what I have read, it is a very easy job compared to the 3100 motor... I realize that you have to purchase a new UIM and new gaskets etc., is that where you are getting that much from? From the other post that says its a 3-4 hour job, at 80 an hour is $320... That leaves 700-800 for parts???

 

What difference does it make that the spark plugs are fouled to push it $700 higher?

[Regal_GS_1989]

Not wanting to HiJack here... But is there a way to tell if an engine already has the updated manifold? My regal was built in late 99 as a 2000 model. I had been under the impression that this issue was resolved on the 2000+ MY vehicles.

[88red4cyl]

Not wanting to HiJack here... But is there a way to tell if an engine already has the updated manifold? My regal was built in late 99 as a 2000 model. I had been under the impression that this issue was resolved on the 2000+ MY vehicles.

 

If you take off the engine cover and look at the upepr intake manifold there will be a circle with an arrow pointing at a year... That will tell you what year the manifold is from... Mine was on the driver side of the manifold..

[Regal_GS_1989]

I was actually wondering about something like a part number for the new design. The car was built in late 99, and the intake has a 99 build year on it, but I remember reading somewhere that MY 2000 cars had updated manifold designs and that they no longer melted.

 

The only reason I'm wondering is because everywhere I seem to look about the intake manifold issue, the complaints all seem to stop on the 1999 model year. I have checked complaints from all GM's with 3800's and have yet to see one complaint from any 2000 + cars having a cracked manifold.

[Canada]

The reason it costs more is because you are typically replacing the upper pleumn.

 

If you do have a big EGR port lower intake, you could swap to the new smaller port....but it IS pricey. The first upper lasts to a typical 100k miles.....the second should last just as long. Most people won't own a car that long.

 

As far as Dex Cool goes.....use what it takes. Dex-Cool in any of my non leak prone vechiles is just fine.

[88red4cyl]

The reason it costs more is because you are typically replacing the upper pleumn.

 

I figured that, but the new upper plenum and gaskets is only $90 from Rockauto... I wonder if he is replacing the lower intake manifold as well...

[xtremerevolution]

So is it possible to wrap that EGR tube in some kind of material to keep the heat from dissipating? Some kind of heat shield wrap? I know they have them out there for exahust pipes, so I'm sure you could retrofit something. Is that a possibility?

[White93z34]

the most widely accepted fix is to use that doorman upper intake setup on rockauto, it includes a smaller diameter stovepipe to prevent that from happening again

[xtremerevolution]

the most widely accepted fix is to use that doorman upper intake setup on rockauto, it includes a smaller diameter stovepipe to prevent that from happening again

 

Alright, good. That's the one I'm planning on using. Lets hope this car holds till spring of next year.

 

Just out of curiosity, what do you do in the event that your engine does hydrolock with coolant?

[Crazy K]

Just out of curiosity, what do you do in the event that your engine does hydrolock with coolant?

 

Fix = rebuild.

[White93z34]

don't listen to ken.

 

provided it happens when the car is sitting still. you just pull the spark plugs and crank the engine to pump the coolant out, then you do a intake job on it.

[Crazy K]

Just out of curiosity, what do you do in the event that your engine does hydrolock with coolant?

 

Fix = rebuild.

let me correct/clarify myself. fix = rebuild if it happens at highway speed. if you are lucky, it happens while parked.

[xtremerevolution]

Alright, I got everything ordered:

 

ACDelco spark plug wires

Champion platinum spark plugs

Dorman Intake manifold (with all gaskets)

Fel-Pro fuel injector o-rings

Fel-Pro LIM gaskets

Gates serpentine belt

Raybestos service grade semi-metallic rear brake pads

Raybestos rear caliper rebuild kit (bushings, etc.)

SMP Vapor Canister Purge Valve

R1 Concepts rear OEM replacement zinc coated rotors

1 canister of seafoam

3 gallons of Dex-Cool

 

Did I miss anything? I've got my work cut out for me now...