BXX Posted February 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 I may take a set off you at the Ohio meet... Like I said before I never really liked that held upper mount, but it was all I had to work with... So right now this mock up uses the lower part from a second Gen? Jamie Nope, lower part from the stock Gen1 mount... Oh, and I believe I found a very adaquate bearing through QA1.. Radial load of appx 44000lbs, and radial of appx 8900lbs.. Cost is $15 list. Im pretty sure that is the bearing used on aftermarket coilovers for 3rdgen F-bodies which have a heavier front end than us.. I will contact QA1 directly my next day off which is Tuesday... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted February 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Alrighty then, I know what design I am gonna go with. I gotta work it out, get measurements, and I will post more on it, its a lot simpler, plenty strong, and cheaper to do.. I may be able to cut costs down to $150 a set for the mounts. I will be going with QA1 spherical bearings. They are plenty strong enough and will cut costs down a lot. Also, I found a place to do laser cutting. Im gonna get a quote on the design once its done. In the meantime, I will also be dealing with rear lateral links and trailing arms with rod ends... Might as well. I have already done most of the research for these. Just need to order in materials. But dont worry,im putting the strut mounts ahead of these.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mra32 Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Keep in mind steel costs less, but machine time costs alot and there is more machine time in steel designs than aluminum. There is no way that I can think of that you can get the bearing plate laser cut (what are the limitations on thickness of material for lasercutting anyway?) with the design you mentioned. I'd have a place quote a lot of 10 or 20 for steel and aluminum (with the machine shop providing the material) and see what the price difference is. To hold the bearing, you want a constant diameter. I would venture to say a TAPER is bad, and you just want a STEP. Bearings like constant surfaces. Thats why boring/reaming for a bearing is typically the last thing you do in manufacturing, so nothing else can warp the surface. I'd say the snap ring isnt neccessary and requires another tool change (which = money) in CNC milling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSI_MuNkY Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 I could do a snap ring without CNC, you just need to know how to set up a regular milling machine with a fly cutter, hell I could do it in a lathe on a 3 jaw chuck. How thick is the bearing vs the thickness of the plate? I think the best fit for the bearing would be press fit, in which case there would be no taper, just a very precisely cut counter bore for the bearing to go into. Next chance I have to machine my own parts is at least 8 weeks away. I'm not allowed to do personal projects till my term assigned projects are done. And we start a new 12 week block on Monday. The plates wouldn't HAVE to be laser cut, its amazing what you can do with a few minutes on the bansaw, a few minutes with a hand file and a few more minutes on the buffing wheel. Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mra32 Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Jamie, I am well aware of the machining procedures available that will cut an internal groove in a chunk of aluminum. I'm talking about the whole scheme. Anyone who would do it on a manual milling machine either: Does not have a cnc, or is in favor of wasting time. The setup time to do that on a manual milling machine would be extreme and there is a much higher chance for error since you are using a rotary table on top of your regular table (that is if you havent purchased expensive heads like this one http://www.criterionmachineworks.com/Catalog/boringfacing.htm) CNC milling would be cheaper and result in less setup time than any of those methods. Actually, you'd probably be able to laser cut the plate then put it up in a lathe. That should work. The cutting bit would be super close to the chuck if you use a 3 jaw and if you use a 4 jaw....well thats just s shitload of time. I just dont have a feel for what the machine costs are for laser cutters. The way a shop does it will also depend on their available machines and the priority of the project. The reason i say a snap ring isnt necessary is that if the friction of a pressed in bearing isnt holding the bearing in on full droop, i dont think a snap ring would either. I dunno, maybe you can get some thick ass snap ring, but then it will be impossible to get in there...or out. So if you did end up getting it in there, then if would basically be a permanent fixture. Oh yeah. one word of advice...wear saftey glasses when working with snap rings!! I agree with jamie with hand tools. You could definitely to the top plate yourself. Except how is that bandsaw gonna cut the middle hole? Just kidding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSI_MuNkY Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Bearing should be a press fit simply because you don't want both races moving (if you used a slip ring the bearing would be slightly loose, allowing it to move in the plate), especially if the bearing is made of Steel (which I assume it would be) and the plate holding it was aluminum, the steel bearing would wear away at the aluminum, aluminum chips get in the bearing and the bearing fails prematurely. The bearing will say what type of fit it requires and from there you can figure out the size the hole needs to be to get the correct fit. Bob, something you might consider is just making the plans available to people, unless your looking to being in some profit on this... Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mra32 Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 isnt this thread making it available to people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSI_MuNkY Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Well hes also talking about making a few sets... I'd pay him a small fee for a set of schematic drawings though Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted March 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 This is kinda on hold for now as I deal with my cradle issue. Both these mounts and the steel cradle bushings I need require me to find someone to make what I need to my design.. Ugh, I need to start getting stuff to redo my brakes so I can do everything at once. NonABS master cylinder, new steel brake lines, braided stainless brake hoses, rear brake/knuckle upgrade. Got a lot to do.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSI_MuNkY Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 Get me autocad drawings and I can try to get some machine shop time to make them. In addition to the shop time at school I can try to get some time in captain Ficho's parents machine shop on a weekend... I get drawings I can put together a quote for the steel... Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted March 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 Get me autocad drawings and I can try to get some machine shop time to make them. In addition to the shop time at school I can try to get some time in captain Ficho's parents machine shop on a weekend... I get drawings I can put together a quote for the steel... Jamie I will try to finalize them within this week.. I pretty much got the fronts drawn up, except I can barely remember how to use AutoCAD. Im using the 2007 version.. I can seem to remember how to make a hole through an item I ought to have my father do them this weekend when i am down there. Hes a fricken product designer after all 25 years experience, and knows how to use any 3D modeling software. Prolly have him do it in SolidWorks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSI_MuNkY Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 well you can send me the actual cad files (I have AutoCAD 2009) or you can print them in 2D as a pdf (use a program called cutepdf) and e-mail me that pdf Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted March 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 Hell, im gonna see if I can bribe him into taking my strut mount design and doing a CAD rendition as well. Might as well do it for the rears too... Im getting noise from the stock mount under hard bumps. Nothing thats annoying, but I want a proper rear mount too since Im doing so much up front.. Christ, i have a lot of work ahead of me... BTW, the front mount design is a little dependent on if I have someone help me fab up front control arms, as at that point I will be using different front knuckles and struts Im getting ahead of myself, but not much. I just want to get everything done correctly and ready to go onto the car all at once so its done!! I have a feeling I will be doing another rear subframe drop for beefier lateral links. Might as well do the brake lines while I am there and maybe a new fuel tank and pump I will see what I can come up with and send them to you Jaime. My dad and neighbor might get me the hookup. My neighbor already told me if I give him the template for the main plate for the strut mounts his buddy will cut them out for me for free!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted March 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 Soo, within this week, as of what it gonna happen for now, I will be getting final exacting measurements for everything. And thats for front mounts using our current struts, rear mounts, metal cradle bushings, and lateral links Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSI_MuNkY Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 These upper plates should still work with stock control arms right?? Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted March 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 These upper plates should still work with stock control arms right?? Jamie Im first doing mounts for our stock cars... If I get control arms made where i use a different knuckle and strut, then i will have to do slightly different mounts. But I dont really see getting the arms made anytime soon.. I have enough ahead of me as it is... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted March 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Well.. This is completely ON-HOLD for now.. A couple things have popped up. I will get the design done, but nothing will prolly get mad within the next month or so. I injured my back pretty bad, and have to go to a doctor. I have no insurance because my works coverage is garbage and costs an arm and a leg. So, i will have to spend less on stuff like this to make sure I pay the bills on time.. LKQ is shipping me a new cradle to replace the bad one I got, so if I dont have to drill/mod that cradle, the the design changes greatly. They are sending me one from a W with 55K on it. However, this thread WILL CONTINUE!! Im not abandoning this idea and leaving yall hang, but things may be coming slower. I will have to get a new job due to my back being in poor shape, which will more than likely end up in a pay cut... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpchris Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Well.. This is completely ON-HOLD for now.. A couple things have popped up. I will get the design done, but nothing will prolly get mad within the next month or so. I injured my back pretty bad, and have to go to a doctor. I have no insurance because my works coverage is garbage and costs an arm and a leg. So, i will have to spend less on stuff like this to make sure I pay the bills on time.. LKQ is shipping me a new cradle to replace the bad one I got, so if I dont have to drill/mod that cradle, the the design changes greatly. They are sending me one from a W with 55K on it. However, this thread WILL CONTINUE!! Im not abandoning this idea and leaving yall hang, but things may be coming slower. I will have to get a new job due to my back being in poor shape, which will more than likely end up in a pay cut... That sucks. If your cradle bushings didnt destroy your subframe I would have looked into them Btw 97+ knuckles are sooo worth it. And wat about the rear? Wouldnt 97+ knuckles bolt right up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted March 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Well.. This is completely ON-HOLD for now.. A couple things have popped up. I will get the design done, but nothing will prolly get mad within the next month or so. I injured my back pretty bad, and have to go to a doctor. I have no insurance because my works coverage is garbage and costs an arm and a leg. So, i will have to spend less on stuff like this to make sure I pay the bills on time.. LKQ is shipping me a new cradle to replace the bad one I got, so if I dont have to drill/mod that cradle, the the design changes greatly. They are sending me one from a W with 55K on it. However, this thread WILL CONTINUE!! Im not abandoning this idea and leaving yall hang, but things may be coming slower. I will have to get a new job due to my back being in poor shape, which will more than likely end up in a pay cut... That sucks. If your cradle bushings didnt destroy your subframe I would have looked into them Btw 97+ knuckles are sooo worth it. And wat about the rear? Wouldnt 97+ knuckles bolt right up? Well, my current subframe is rotted, the one I got from LKQ was rotted out under the bushings. They are gonna send me a new one that is OK.. Im still gonna do solid bushings, but the measurements are gonna be a lot different with the subframe not needing to be 'holed' out to get rid of the rust. Like I said, im still gonna do them, and the design will work out for people who dont have rotted cradles. I was gonna enlarge the holes due to the rust to get rid of the rusted part.. You understand me Sometimes I have a hard time explaining something with words And I do believe I found someone to do the arms as well, and for pretty cheap at that.. I wasnt gonna pay Mark $600 for a design that didnt meet my spec. I should be able to get these done for only a couple hundred bucks. And yeah, I already intend to use the lighter aluminum 97+ knuckles. Lighter and come with better brakes. And with those better brakes comes options to get larger aftermarket brakes in the future Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSI_MuNkY Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 We need a write up on a 97+ knuckle swap detailing all the parts needed and the work involved Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpchris Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 We need a write up on a 97+ knuckle swap detailing all the parts needed and the work involved Jamie Its alot of work. You need custom control arms and a custom upper mount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSI_MuNkY Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 We need a write up on a 97+ knuckle swap detailing all the parts needed and the work involved Jamie Its alot of work. You need custom control arms and a custom upper mount. Some of us aren't afraid of a lot of work I love a challenge Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpchris Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 We need a write up on a 97+ knuckle swap detailing all the parts needed and the work involved Jamie Its alot of work. You need custom control arms and a custom upper mount. Some of us aren't afraid of a lot of work I love a challenge Jamie If its not the work your afraid of then it will be the money. The control arms costed me almost $700, the camberplates will be 2-4 hundred, custom axles are $300 per side.. Plus I used new moog balljoints/tierod ends which set me back another $200. I also upgraded to kyb agx struts with custom coilovers and did the fbody brake upgrade. Total cost to me is well over $2000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSI_MuNkY Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 I dropped $1300 on a coil over kt that people are no making their own for half that and getting a compatible product. That and I now have access to machines to make my own parts. All I'm saying is that a write up would help some that would like to look into it weigh their options... Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venom Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Well.. This is completely ON-HOLD for now.. A couple things have popped up. I will get the design done, but nothing will prolly get mad within the next month or so. I injured my back pretty bad, and have to go to a doctor. I have no insurance because my works coverage is garbage and costs an arm and a leg. So, i will have to spend less on stuff like this to make sure I pay the bills on time.. LKQ is shipping me a new cradle to replace the bad one I got, so if I dont have to drill/mod that cradle, the the design changes greatly. They are sending me one from a W with 55K on it. However, this thread WILL CONTINUE!! Im not abandoning this idea and leaving yall hang, but things may be coming slower. I will have to get a new job due to my back being in poor shape, which will more than likely end up in a pay cut... Damn man sorry to hear, if you need extra $$$ You can sell me what youve collected for the front and Ill see about getting them installed since I got everything for the rear (KYBs got here yesterday). I probably wont start collecting parts for the front for a few weeks so lmk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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