CSI_MuNkY Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 I would very much be interested in seeing what you come up with in the way of drawings for the adjustable mounts... I know its no laser cutter but I have access to a ban saw and several different styles of mill at school. So I have the means of making them (in very limited numbers as it takes up my class time) Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted February 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 I think the only problem you might run into is having someone custom make you just two mounts is gonna cost you some serious $$$. Shouldnt cost much to have a few steel plates cut to a CAD spec of the like.. I can just do it the harder way, but it wont look as nice as laser cut pieces would be I should prolly do it my way first. Hell, the most I would be out is $25 in steel plate, maybe a cutoff disc, a dremel bit, and some time.. I will need a reemer bit to do the slots. Not expensive, and I should have one seeming im an alignment technician Hell, Im gonna butcher up my spare Gen2 mounts, im almost positive I can use them as the base of the mount itself.. Make like easy because our towers have a slight curve to them that the mount follows.. I will get a better look tomorrow at work since I have the mount there.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSI_MuNkY Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 *watches attentively* I want to redesign my front mounts, this is definitely something I want to work into it. Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted February 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Ok, got the strut mounts cut out of cardboard as templates... 95% done.. Still need to do a few more slightly different. Neighbor has a good friend who can cut the plates out for me, and prolly cheap as hell.. I will be getting several done. so that there will be some for other people who may be interested. Also, got the link on the spherical bearings I will be using. Was gonna use QA1 because they are commonly used, but without the site showing axial load ratings, I couldnt make a decision. So in the end, I went more high end.. Spend a bit more now, pay off later even though QA1 products are widely used without issues.. I went with NMB/NHBB bearings.. Appx $70 each.. Plenty livable. I will prolly order them in a couple weeks when I get paid. The static axial load rating is 10,500lbs.. Plenty high enough and are high misalignment bearings to boot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted February 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Oh, and I will post pics of the completely mount template later tonight... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted February 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Alright, got a design that I like and allows for a fair amount of adjustment Got a rough cardboard template right now. Im gonna pick up some thick paperboard tonight, a compass, a protractor, and a ruler to get a good drawout for a better template and precise measurements. Once done, im gonna make copies, give them to my neighbor so his friend can cut them out.. Moving along quite nicely.. I only have about 2 hours into this now.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSI_MuNkY Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Got pics? Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted February 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Im taking a break from cutting out the final design from heavy fiberboard... The main plate is done... Now for the top plate that will hold/house the spherical bearing and allow for caster adjustment... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted February 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Ok, here are pics... From the start of the madness to a 95% complete design... This will utilize you existing lower plates. The protruding part for the actual mounting bushing will need to be cutoff, so you are left with a disc with the studs basically. That will go on the bottom to aid in support and add the studs for the upper main plate (camber plate) which is slotted to adjust camber. On top of that is the smaller secondary plate (caster plate) which is slotted to adjust caster and holds/houses the spherical bearing. Now the 95% complete design in the heavy fiberboard Now a second design that I am contemplating will only utilize the lower base plate (the stock mount plate) and the main upper plate. Only difference is the actual strut towers will be slotted for camber. The upper plate will be slotted to adjust caster and hold/house the spherical bearing. Reason for this design is that alot of our cars have at one point had the strut towers slotted to align the car. It is a manufacture approved way, so dont fret. Plus, with only having 1 upper plate, there is less possibility for fatigue problems down the road.. Although, before anyone butts in saying this is the way to go, remember, just about all adjustable mount kits for Mustangs use a upper plate with the spherical bearing on top to adjust caster.. So there should be NO issues. A guy I work with has a kit like that on his Mustang for several years.. No ISSUES! So I think and like the first design -Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mra32 Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 I like the use of stock parts. Assuming I'm envisioning it properly: Is that main plate gonna be made of plate steel? How thick? You didnt specify how you were going to account for the curvature of the strut tower. I'm kinda thinking you should use spherical washers to space the plate up if the plate is sufficienty rigid (read: thick) but then you run into the problem of stud length, but you could probably swap them out for bolts anyway. You also have to be careful about spacing the plate since the studs do not lie parallel to one another. This is to say, the studs would intersect the plate at different locations, depending on the spacing between the main plate and the strut tower. Are you also using plate steel for the smaller plate? How does the spherical bearing lie in here? I'd probably suggest using aluminum as thick as the spherical bearing for this plate. From a suspension standpoint, I like how this raises the shock, however, the way this is designed (With a sort of cascading UP, each plate on top of the next and secured by the bolts) is loading the bolts 99% of the time. I know there are times when the suspension is pulling down on the body of the car (like if you are jumping it or something and then you are really gonna have a big load on those bolts when the car lands) but the suspension is mostly pushing up on the body/mount. This means that the load of the car is on the bolts as opposed to the load resting on the body as in the stock setup. The setup you created could probably be designed/spec'd for this, but its much more comforting to have your suspension resting on the body than nuts/bolts. This is where I would chalk another tally for replacing the studs with some nice strong bolts, since we dont really know what those studs are made of and to what spec. Actually you could probably forget the whole stock plate with the studs with 2 sets of spherical washers and fender washers on each stud. I dunno, i like the area that the stock plate provides. Also, I'd recommend putting a little lip behind the spherical bearing (even .005" smaller diameter would do, just so it definitely wont pop out). I'm just anal about things relying on friction to stay put. I like things butting up against one another to keep them in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSI_MuNkY Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Right on! i can't see the pics right now cause i am posting from my cell... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuntzie Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 just saw this thread and my rears are almost the samne as yours except i used a different piece for the mount and 450# springs, same brand qa1 though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSI_MuNkY Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 450# in the rear? holy crap! That's gotta be a stiff ride! Bob, sorry about asking for so many pics, lol... I'm a visual person, so I need to see things to actually get a clue. I still don't have a really good grasp on how these will work, the concept is new to me so I am quite intrigued! Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venom Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Wow I had no idea the front was so much more involved compared to the rear. I should be ordering my parts from A1 this week and heading to Summit Racing for the rest. But first comes the yard. Probably need to have the car running properly first before I worry about handling LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSI_MuNkY Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Probably need to have the car running properly first before I worry about handling LOL. Says who??? Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted February 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Wow I had no idea the front was so much more involved compared to the rear. I should be ordering my parts from A1 this week and heading to Summit Racing for the rest. But first comes the yard. Probably need to have the car running properly first before I worry about handling LOL. Stock Gen 2 mounts can be easily used. But get new ones, carefully drill them out to 5/8" and then taper the hole about halfway with a 1" bit and assemble.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted February 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Ok Mike, I did a lot of thinking last night. It kept me up most of the night.. Hell, im loosing sleep over this Prolly a good thing as I can visual my ideas better while laying in bed, in the dark, with the silent hum of my box fan... Ok, yes, as far as the peice that holds the spherical bearing, either billet aluminum of even steel to cut a bit of costs if needed should be used. The bearing will be staked/pressed into the hole, but will taper in to provide a shelf for it to bottom out on. On the other side, there will be a groove cut in the hole that will allow a snap ring to go in and provide retainment on the other side. The camber plate will have to be curved, using spacers is not an option.. It can be easily curved in test fitting by starting to bolt it down while heating it and tapping it with a hammer. It will easily start to take form. Prolly use the same thickness of steel for that plate too as compared to stock since its plenty strong enough. Space providing, I will want the caster plate/block with the bearing to be mounted on the underside. It would be even better to mount the entire unit on the underside of strut tower, but on top does allow the point of mounting to be raised a bit, and the strut rod to sit higher allowing the strut rod to stay in a more proper position internally. The stock mount's bolts are grade 9.8 which is good strenght, but for my design, only the strongest bolts will suffice, grade 10.9 or higher. Not like bolts are all that expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted February 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 So in other words, I have this first design, but im gonna work on a second this weekend that will put everything underneath the strut tower for slightly better support to help spread the load directly instead of relying on the studs and bolts to do it.. BTW, 3rd Gen F-bodies both in stock form and aftermarket coilover setups have a design like my 1st as I posted. Using the 3 bolts which are strong is very sufficient at spreading the load, but I admit, not the BEST design.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted February 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Oh, and im actually getting exhuasted on this too.. All day at work we were busy as hell, and the whole time I was thinking about the strut mounts and going over different designs in my head.. I sure hope all this pays off and really helps y'all out too.. I started a group buy thread too, as it only makes sense to have plenty of extra sets made for anyone else so they can reap the benifits and help further the W-body aftermarket. I will also start on the rears right afterwards or almost immediately... Just makes sense are the rears will be much more simple as no adjustment is needed.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSI_MuNkY Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Lets see if I have this straight... Like I said I'm visual, so I'm trying to envision how this works... This piece bolts to the top of the strut tower Then the strut bolts to this piece and it bolts to the piece above. And this piece moves via the slotted holes to adjust the caster by a few degrees? If I have all that right then should the adjustable part not be on the bottom? otherwise when you adjust it on the top the spring is going to stay where it is on the bottom, and will no longer be parallel with the strut Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted February 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 You have a good start... This peice bolts on top of the tower, the 3 slots will go side to side and adjust camber On top of that goes this peice. Its slots slide on top of the 1st peice front to back and adjust caster, It also house the spherical bearing which is strut rod goes through and secures to. Resting on the bottom of the spherical bearing is the upper coilover spring seat.. The entire load sits on the spherical bearing (yes, its plenty strong enough) In the end, you end up with no unwanted play like a stock bushing setup, and the spring stays parellel with the strut rod which is quite important. Not so important with large stock springs though. We dont have big stock ones, but much stiffer and smaller diameter aftermarket which are more sensitive to binding. This design allows for no binding of the spring.. They sit like this Here, this should help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSI_MuNkY Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Excellent! I get it now! Any idea what you will be asking for these per set? Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted February 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Excellent! I get it now! Any idea what you will be asking for these per set? Jamie Well, since the spherical bearings are $70 each , the price will prolly be $250 complete... If I can find bearings for a different price but just as strong (which I should) I can drop the price.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted February 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Im gonna try to get more info through QA1 on the load rating of their sperical bearings.. They provide radial loads, but i need axial load ratings.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSI_MuNkY Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 I may take a set off you at the Ohio meet... Like I said before I never really liked that held upper mount, but it was all I had to work with... So right now this mock up uses the lower part from a second Gen? Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.