timg Posted August 5, 2003 Report Posted August 5, 2003 I've found a 1997 Cutlass Supreme that I can get everything off of for a rear disc brake conversion on my 95 Monte Carlo Z34. The rotors, hubs, knuckles, lines, and everything else are $290 total. I've also found a 1994 Grand Prix with the same stuff for $100. Is there a good reason to go with one over the other? The Grand Prix is a bit further away, but for almost $200 savings it might be worth it! I've heard the knuckles are changed/upgraded in 97, but is that really a big deal? Will I need any other parts? Are the master cylinders or proportioning valves different for disc vs drum brake cars? Has anyone actually done this swap? I've also been looking into upgrading my pathetic 10.5" stock front discs to later 11.25" front discs. Are the knuckles really all I need? How come it is a knuckle strut assembly, but I've replaced my struts already with KYB's? Sorry for all of the questions, the furthest I've gone into my braking system now is replacing my brake pads every 10k miles! I'll have to drive at least 2 hours to get brake parts and up to 5 depending on where I go and I want to make sure that I get the right stuff. Thanks for your help. Tim Quote
GnatGoSplat Posted August 5, 2003 Report Posted August 5, 2003 Rear end, the knuckles are separate from the struts. The knuckle part #'s were different in 97, but might be the same thing, just superceded part #'s. GM changes them all the time. Are you sure you have the small front rotors? Someone told me once that the whole reason GM came out with the 11.25" front rotors was because they wanted to use them on the Monte/Lumina when the newer body style came out. If you do replace them, you will have to pull your strut cartridge out of the old and reinstall into the new. Quote
timg Posted August 5, 2003 Author Report Posted August 5, 2003 The 95 Monte Carlos came with the small front disc brakes and rear drums... the worst braking system in any w-body ever!!! grr... In 96, they upped the front brake diameter and made rear discs standard on Z34's. I've heard that some later 95 MY Montes came with the larger front disc brakes, but I'm virtually positive that mine isn't one of them. In fact, I've never heard of a 95 with the larger front disc brakes. The front sounds like it may be a real pain. Hopefully everything will go well. Any thoughts on the brake master cylinder and the proportioning valve? Thanks. Tim Quote
PaPaPooh Posted August 5, 2003 Report Posted August 5, 2003 im not sure what you have to do to make it work but i do know that disc brakes have a higher pressure valve than the drums so you have to fix that with master or just a valve not sure which one anyone else got anything on that? Quote
GnatGoSplat Posted August 5, 2003 Report Posted August 5, 2003 I didn't think the MC was any different. The porportioning valve is built into the MC. If it turns out the MC is different, the car should still be drivable, but you might make the ABS kick in if you brake real hard. If I can remember, I'll look it up when I get home tonight. Quote
Bolt_Crank Posted August 5, 2003 Report Posted August 5, 2003 my 93 lumina has the 11.25" rotors up front, I'm pretty sure... and disc brakes in the back... not sure what size though (only that the brake pads are like 2" long ) Quote
GnatGoSplat Posted August 5, 2003 Report Posted August 5, 2003 93 should have 10.6" rotors in front unless someone swapped your knuckles out. The 11.25" ones have a raised ring with writing on it around where the wheel mounts on the rotor. Quote
Bolt_Crank Posted August 5, 2003 Report Posted August 5, 2003 interesting.... I think I'll have to take another look.... but you're probable right.... my car stops like my bros, albiet a little better... I should to a brake swap to Suburban brakes when I get some bigger rims Quote
timg Posted August 5, 2003 Author Report Posted August 5, 2003 I just checked GMPD's catalog and they don't list a different master cylinder or proportioning valve for the LS vs Z34. Tim Quote
Brandon Posted March 17, 2004 Report Posted March 17, 2004 Bringing this back from the dead, I know! Anyways, I am planning on doing this rear disc swap because I too hate the drums. Anyways, I have the 10.5" rotors up front and want to upgrade to the 11.25" rotors. I have the rear disc stuff and front calipers off of a 1997 Monte Carlo Z34. For the front... will I just be able upgrade to the 11.25" rotors and the calipers WITHOUT upgraded the knuckles? From some I have heard they are the same and some said they aren't. Thanks for any information! Quote
timg Posted March 17, 2004 Author Report Posted March 17, 2004 Bringing this back from the dead, I know! Anyways, I am planning on doing this rear disc swap because I too hate the drums. Anyways, I have the 10.5" rotors up front and want to upgrade to the 11.25" rotors. I have the rear disc stuff and front calipers off of a 1997 Monte Carlo Z34. For the front... will I just be able upgrade to the 11.25" rotors and the calipers WITHOUT upgraded the knuckles? From some I have heard they are the same and some said they aren't. Thanks for any information! The caliper mounting bracket is in a different location on the newer knuckles. It's worth every penny for the rear disc brake swap! Tim Quote
Brandon Posted March 17, 2004 Report Posted March 17, 2004 The caliper mounting bracket is in a different location on the newer knuckles. It's worth every penny for the rear disc brake swap! Tim Hmm. I wonder if I got the calipers from a 95 Z like yours Tim... I remember you saying yours had the 11.25's stock. Or are you saying all stock knuckles with 11.25's are the same? Quote
timg Posted March 17, 2004 Author Report Posted March 17, 2004 The caliper mounting bracket is in a different location on the newer knuckles. It's worth every penny for the rear disc brake swap! Tim Hmm. I wonder if I got the calipers from a 95 Z like yours Tim... I remember you saying yours had the 11.25's stock. Or are you saying all stock knuckles with 11.25's are the same? I got lucky and had the upgraded 11.25" ones stock(I'm pretty sure the calipers are identical on the 10.5 and 11.25"). All of the 11.25" parts should be interchangeable. Some early 95's had the 10.5" brakes and different knuckles to go with them. Tim Quote
Brandon Posted March 17, 2004 Report Posted March 17, 2004 Hey, thanks again for the reply. I guess what I am basically wondering is if I can just throw on a 11.25" rotor on the front without there being any problems? Has anyone here done that? Quote
GnatGoSplat Posted March 17, 2004 Report Posted March 17, 2004 No, you can't. I put 96 Monte Z34 front knuckles on my 89 Cutlass Supreme, and reused all the original brake hardware except rotors. The difference is definitely in the knuckles, not the caliper or caliper brackets and this is verified. Quote
Brandon Posted March 19, 2004 Report Posted March 19, 2004 No, you can't. I put 96 Monte Z34 front knuckles on my 89 Cutlass Supreme, and reused all the original brake hardware except rotors. The difference is definitely in the knuckles, not the caliper or caliper brackets and this is verified. How hard is it to change out the knuckles? Do you have to mess with the spring/struts? Quote
gtp34 Posted March 19, 2004 Report Posted March 19, 2004 The difference is definitely in the knuckles, not the caliper or caliper brackets and this is verified. I did the upgrade for the front on my 91 Regal.. I had to use the brackets that came from the 96 knuckles.. The original brackets were grinding on the rotor. Lots of noise and smoke when I came to a stop :shock: ..... I put the 96 brackets on and all was ok. Guess my case was a freak one. Quote
Jon89le Posted March 19, 2004 Report Posted March 19, 2004 Over on ClubGP in the "Suspension & Brake" section, there is talk about switching over to F-Body brakes. Theres a whole writeup on it. It doesnt seem to be a direct bolt up as the 94+ setup mentioned from the W-Bodies, but nevertheless, they are doing it in the 97+ GPs. Anyone think it may be possible to do a similar modification on our generation W-Bodies? Quote
Brandon Posted March 19, 2004 Report Posted March 19, 2004 The difference is definitely in the knuckles, not the caliper or caliper brackets and this is verified. I did the upgrade for the front on my 91 Regal.. I had to use the brackets that came from the 96 knuckles.. The original brackets were grinding on the rotor. Lots of noise and smoke when I came to a stop :shock: ..... I put the 96 brackets on and all was ok. Guess my case was a freak one. So you just used the brackets that were on the 96+? I wonder if your car had the same front knuckle setup as mine. So it wasn't very hard for you? Quote
GutlessSupreme Posted March 19, 2004 Report Posted March 19, 2004 Over on ClubGP in the "Suspension & Brake" section, there is talk about switching over to F-Body brakes. Theres a whole writeup on it. It doesnt seem to be a direct bolt up as the 94+ setup mentioned from the W-Bodies, but nevertheless, they are doing it in the 97+ GPs. Anyone think it may be possible to do a similar modification on our generation W-Bodies? I read that the other day too. Definetly something I'd like to do if no custom fabbing is required. Quote
GnatGoSplat Posted March 19, 2004 Report Posted March 19, 2004 How hard is it to change out the knuckles? Do you have to mess with the spring/struts? Not very hard, you remove the spring/strut/knuckle as a complete assembly. You only have to mess with springs and struts if you're transplanting them from the old to the new. Over on ClubGP in the "Suspension & Brake" section, there is talk about switching over to F-Body brakes. Theres a whole writeup on it. It doesnt seem to be a direct bolt up as the 94+ setup mentioned from the W-Bodies, but nevertheless, they are doing it in the 97+ GPs. Anyone think it may be possible to do a similar modification on our generation W-Bodies? No, it's not possible without a lot of fabrication. F-body has the same size rotors (diameter and thickness) as the Autobahn package Intrigue that the 97+ guys are upgrading their cars to. F-body also has very similar style calipers as a 97+. I think their rotor offset (the rotor in relation to where it mounts) is also very similar. Ours are VERY different. A gen 2 W-body is practically like a completely different car than a gen 1. Our rotor thickness, diameter, offset, and caliper mounting are completely different than a gen 2 W-body or F-body. Quote
gtp34 Posted March 20, 2004 Report Posted March 20, 2004 The difference is definitely in the knuckles, not the caliper or caliper brackets and this is verified. I did the upgrade for the front on my 91 Regal.. I had to use the brackets that came from the 96 knuckles.. The original brackets were grinding on the rotor. Lots of noise and smoke when I came to a stop :shock: ..... I put the 96 brackets on and all was ok. Guess my case was a freak one. So you just used the brackets that were on the 96+? I wonder if your car had the same front knuckle setup as mine. So it wasn't very hard for you? NO.. I used the 96 knuckles and the 91 caliper brackets.. But after goin around the block for a test spin, I had tonnes of smoke pouring out from the front.. I took the brackets off and saw how the rotor was grinding away on the bracket. I then put the 96 brackets on the knuckle and everything was OK (plenty of clearance). Thats why I said my case was a freak one.. As your supposed to be able to use you original caliper brackets but I couldn't. Quote
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