what do you know about "gmtuners"??

[alphagtp]

I was asking around for a way to remove the governor on my car, and somebody told me about www.gmtuners.com. They have listed chips for my 94 dohc. They also don't have much info on them so I have no idea on what to think/do.

[alphagtp]

anybody??

[ryan.h]

he's got a pretty good reputation in the fiero community. He does all kinds of conversions and tuning. He knows his stuff.

[BIGBULS]

Also, since your only other semi-viable option is Fastchips (they sell a chip for 94-95 cars that eliminates the governor and makes 1hp or so to the wheels), I'd say give him a try.

 

As a suggestion, see what he can do for some tuning of the shift logic as well. That way, you end up with more than just a "governor delete" chip and can actually gain some PERFORMANCE, if not actual power.

 

I wouldn't go too crazy, but bumping 1-2 about 200rpm and 2-3 about 100-150rpm will help without making the trans too unhappy. It's the 3-4 where the biggest gains can be had...........stock LQ1's shift barely past 5000rpm for 3-4, and it would be a good idea to bump that a solid 1000rpm or so.

 

The idea is to put the shiftpoints at the rpm "limit" of the trans as rated by GMpowertrain when they still listed the 60-E.

 

1-2 @ 6500rpm

2-3 @ 6250rpm

3-4 @ 6000rpm

 

Plus, massaging the kickdowns can help quite a bit too.

 

PM me if you want a little more specific info so that you can make up your mind (assuming that the chip tuner is even willing to do this)...........

[BIGBULS]

BTW.............given his prices, I think it definately WOULD be worthwhile to try and work the shiftpoints.......

 

ALSO...........note the option of the "thumbwheel" chip. This will give you the option of having him programming in a "performance" .bin file with even MORE agressive shift logic for track use ONLY (you don't wan't to go toooooo agressive on a consistant basis and expect the tranny to be totally happy).

 

Usually, with an LQ1 auto, you can just use the "winter" shift table (selectable with the optional 2nd gear start found on some cars) as a "performance" table where shift logic is concerned. It's a good way to keep things mild (and the tranny happy) under everday use, but have a more radical program to take advantage of your DOHC V6's top end.

[alphagtp]

ok. I think I'm going to try it!! So what should I get?? I know petty much nothing about this. I do want to get the most performance out of it, I will be getting a tranny cooler and a shift kit, It is not my DD so I can go a little bit more "agressive"

[BIGBULS]

ok. I think I'm going to try it!! So what should I get?? I know petty much nothing about this. I do want to get the most performance out of it, I will be getting a tranny cooler and a shift kit, It is not my DD so I can go a little bit more "agressive"

 

I'm at work, so I'll have to find time to go a bit more indepth, but I'll write you out a set of *recomendations* to try out.

 

Be aware, I have NOT got an LQ1 auto in front of me to test out, but look in here: http://www.w-body.com/forum/index.php?topic=69147.0 to get an idea of what I'll be writing up for you.

 

Just don't use THOSE recomendations, because they are for a lightly modded 3100 Cutlass, NOT an LQ1 auto

 

 

Anyway............more later (when I get a chance to type a marathon post)

[xtremerevolution]

I e-mailed them myself regarding my car:

 

> Hi,

>

> My name is Andrei. I'd like to ask if my particular vehicle's PCM can be

> modified for any gains in performance or power. The vehicle is a 1995

> Buick

> Regal with the 3800 Series 1 V6 (L27). The transmission is the typical

> 4T60-E with I believe a 2.93 FDR. The car currently uses the stock PCM,

> though I have upgraded to a straight-through magnaflow exhaust with a

> bigger pipe, a cold air intake, and 1.8 ratio roller rockers. I've also

> installed a transmission cooler to extend the life of the transmission,

> which was rebuilt 40,000 miles ago.

>

> Please advise if any reasonable gains can be achieved through the

> programming of a custom PCM with this engine.

>

> Thank you,

>

> Andrei Pop

 

 

 

Andrei, with the mods you have done the engine may benefit from custom

programming. We can also alter the transmission shift points which will

further enhance performance. Cost will be $55 to do this and I will need

you to send me the mem-cal out of this computer to have it reprogrammed.

Let me know if you are interested.

 

-ryan

 

 

 

Ryan,

 

I am interested in having this computer reprogrammed. If I remember correctly, the PCM is located toward the left of the engine bay (if one is facing the car). Where would this mem-cal be located, and what would it look like? I apologize for the elementary question, but while I've worked on this car a great deal, I'm not too familiar with the car's PCM. Could you provide me with some brief instructions?

 

As far as reprogramming goes, altering the shift points also sounds like a great idea, along with anything else that you can tune to enhance the modifications I've done to the vehicle.

 

$55 also sounds great. Out of curiosity, do you accept paypal?

 

Thank you,

 

 

 

 

For $55, I'm game. I'm curious to see what kind of performance gains I can get with this guy's PCM. I'll laugh my ass off if this regal hits mid 15's. It did a 16.1 without the CAI and roller rockers, and now its even lighter!

 

[alphagtp]

^^^^^^

 

that is what I said!!! you know if for less than a $100 I would get all of that, DAMN!!! give me two of them

[GPX]

Hey, these guys even have a chip for my later model 3400 swap! Looking forward to hearing how this works out for you guys.

[z284pwr]

I had one of his chips burned for our TGP with the stock Turbo.....it ran better than the Jeff M Top Gun 160 chip actually plus I didn't have the gay boost ramp rates or the rev limiter. The transmission didn't like to shift at 7000 RPM though, it would hit second and have a shit fit and just rev to like it was in nuetral.

 

For the $40 and a year of free reburns it worked for me. Plus it would also pass emissions which the Top Gun chip wouldn't.

[BIGBULS]

Ok, I'll add in my little bit:

 

It appears as though most 4T60-E applications use both mph AND rpm is shift triggers. Basically, it looks at both figures and if it has met both criteria, the transmission upshifts (or downshifts). It does this by a series of shift tables that are based off of TPS (throttle position sensor) inputs. It also has specific tables for WOT as well (to go along with the other tables that look at TPS % only).

 

Anyway, a few things:

 

1) The 1-2 shift usually lags 300ish rpm BEHIND the shift "trigger". This means, if you set it to shift at 6200, the actual shift will fire off around 6500 (or so).

 

2) The 1-2 shift moves around slightly as the trans fluid temp moves up (or down). Usually, you'll see a higher 1-2 shift (by 50-100rpm) after powerbraking the car (which heats up the torque convertor and fluid). I gather load can have a minor effect too, as some parts of the 60-E still reference vacuum. This menas the shifts might vary a little going downhill or around a corner as compared to uphill/flat ground.

 

3) The 2-3 shift lags very little. 100rpm or LESS. And 3-4 has NO lag.

 

4) The 3-4 shift is often at a VERY low rpm in stock form to keep both the trans and engine happy. Big gains can be made here for high speed acceleration, but don't go overboard (otherwise coolant, oil and trans temps can start heading north).

 

 

 

 

With this in mind:

 

I don't have the excel chart that Ben (Sappy) emailed me a couple of years ago on this computer, but my memory is usually pretty decent.

 

So.........

 

*I* would start off with triggering the 1-2 shift at 6200rpm and 42mph (in the 2 WOT tables), and then modify my upshift tables for part throttle past 50% TPS to match up with the higher mph limit. I'd also make sure the top TWO slots in the part throttle table were 42mph, due to the TPS NOT alweays reading a true 100% at WOT. That *should* yield a 6500ish rpm 1-2.

 

Next, also set 2-3 at 6200rpm, but have the mph limit at 82mph. This should put you at 6250rpm or so when it actually shifts.

 

Finally, 3-4, put the trigger at 5950-6000rpm and 124-125mph.

 

 

 

These shifts all put you at the limit of the 60-E as designed by GM, and should be good for day to day, adding some performance (they ought to bump 1-2 by 200ish rpm, 2-3 by 100-150rpm and 3-4 by almost 1000rpm) without overstressing the internals.

 

Remember, you want the actual SHIFTS to occur at 6500 for 1-2, 6250 for 2-3 and 6K for 3-4.

 

 

 

Next........

 

Kickdowns to match. At WOT, the stock 2-1 kickdown is 35mph, which drops you to around 5000rpm. Given that we are bumping 1-2 to 6500ish, I would ratchet the 2-1 up to 38ish mph (maybe even 39). This puts you at roughly 5500rpm off of the downshift, RIGHT in the middle of the powerband, AND gives you a 1000ish rpm pull so that you aren't wasting time with a kickdown, IMMMEDIATELY followed by an upshift.

 

As for 3-2, I forget the stock limit (it's a little under 70mph though), but again, I would be looking to go agressive. Try for 5750rpm off of the DOWNSHIFT. Try a 74 or 75mph limit. You are accelerating slower at this speed, so the 500ish rpm that leaves you is plenty, and still puts you in the powerband.

 

Finally..........4-3. Again, I'd look at 5750ish rpm. That's 118 or 119mph if my math is correct, which means that if you are in 4th and encounter a hill, you drop right (again) back into the powerband.

 

 

Then. Have him ramp up the other part throttle stuff at more than 50% TPS for a smooth and linear progression to the new kickdown points.

 

Oh, and don't forget to make the governor go away

 

Plus, I believe the stock auto trans rev limit is 6850rpm or so. Set it to the 5 speed limit of 7K, or even 7150rpm (where the fuel tables stop). More on this in a bit........

 

 

 

 

 

Now. Tables in "D" are one thing, but LQ1 autos ALSO have tables for "Drive Low" and "Drive 2", plus any with the "2nd gear start" option have a "Performance/Winter" table.

 

"Drive Low" is is for when the gear selector is in "1", and "Drive 2" for when it's in "2".

 

*I* like the idea of full manual control, so *I* would set the upshift limit (to 2nd) in "Drive Low" to MORE than the rev limiter. This means that when you put it in "1", it is in 1st gear, and STAYS in 1st. Good for autocrossing and lets you hold 1st on a track or the strip if you want to try different stuff.

 

Likewise, set the 1-2 upshift in "Drive 2" at 0mph, and put the 2-1 kickdown there too. This gives you a 2nd gear start option for the winter, but again will NOT shift out of 2nd no matter what.

 

And the fun part.......

 

*IF* your car has it, you can use the "Winter/Performance" tables as a "Performance Shift" option like the newer GTP's have...........in other words, a "thumbwheel" option.

 

Here, you can go wild with the shiftpoints if you wish (at the risk of making the tranny go BOOM!).

 

I'll let YOU pick these out, but on a pretty much stock powercurve, an LQ1 auto would accelerate BEST with the following shiftpoints:

 

1-2 @ 6850rpm (there is enough slip off the shift to make going to 7K not worth it).

2-3 @ 6700rpm

3-4 @ 6500rpm (although this is also about the top speed of the car, so you'd be at high revs in 3rd for a LONG time).

 

And of course.............with modifications to breathing (intake, exhaust etc), these shifts would likely get high.

 

Again........the tranny won't be too happy.

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway, start off asking the GMtuner guy what he thinks of the above and see how they work.

 

You may well have to mail back and forth a few chips, but even without other mods, shiftpoints ALONE can make the car faster and more responsive.

 

[GPX]

Ok, I'll add in my little bit:

/snip/

Anyway, start off asking the GMtuner guy what he thinks of the above and see how they work.

 

You may well have to mail back and forth a few chips, but even without other mods, shiftpoints ALONE can make the car faster and more responsive.

Thank you for that tremendous amount of information.

[alphagtp]

yeah, thanks a lot for your time!!! Good information here:biggrin: I will be contacting them on monday and see what we get...