3.4 DOHC swap into a GP coupe

[RobertISaar]

i would a love a full LQ1 car for $500... hell just the motor is worth that... was the 144,XXX mileage mentioned earlier whats on this motor or the 3100? still a good deal, even if it needs freshened up

[pontiacmaniac94]

I love how all the LQ1 haters have never had one.

I hate the LQ1 and I have had one!!

 

 

thats because we know better....besides, when the old man has been a mechanic for 25 years, and whenever one of those wizzbang 3.4 DOHC motors shows up, he bids it way high, and tells em to go to hell.

 

not worth the time. or money.

 

You listen to someone who doesn't want to work on them? So you know better? Seriously what do you know about them?!

 

 

i know that when the old man doenst want to work on something because it isnt mechanic friendly... i am going to stay away from it. pretty simple.

[Breakdown]

i know that when the old man doenst want to work on something because it isnt mechanic friendly... i am going to stay away from it. pretty simple.

 

Well someone values experience here.

 

Most mechanics I know will actually send you Christmas cards if you have one of these due to the problems that you'll have - that is provided that you blame them on the car and not the mechanic.

 

I have test driven a good number of G1 GTP's. And in my small selection of tests I have yet to test one that is working properly. My definitions of properly are as follows: as fast or faster than my SE, not making all sorts of weird noises and smells and not hesitating when I put my foot down on the go button thingy. Those are some pretty weak standards, that couldn't be met. I'm assuming most of them are cars that someone has dumped all sorts of money into and gotten frustrated with.

 

A few people I have known swear by the 3.4L V6, it's been great, blah, blah, blah, I'm sorry but they're in the minority.

 

I just bought GTP rims off of a guy that had a '91 GTP, he insisted that his wife get the money, the car was long gone, but the hate for it clearly wasn't. She called it biggest piece of shit that they had ever driven. Three most expensive letters ever. . . . (list goes on).

 

I never looked into a Grand Prix coupe until the last couple of years' because I made the dumb assumption that they all had the LQ1 engine, that's my feelings on the car.

 

The 3.4L DOHC (or twin dual cam - whatever you want to call it) had one of the absolute shortest production runs in GM history, when you look at the simple fact that no engine was derived from that one. Even the quad-four was around longer, and I believe much of it was used in the 2.4L in the Sunfire GT's etc.

 

Aside from the opinions (and they are my opinions - some share them) that the 3.4L is not a good engine choice, there's also the car insurance angle. My insurance company wants essentially a 50% premium over my current non-GTP coupe to have a 3.4L engine. They want more than my 2003 GT Sedan even!

 

I'll give the engine credit for one thing, I've heard from all disgruntled owners, when it's running well . . . it's a thrill. The car you love to hate, is not the car for me.

[xtremerevolution]

This is starting to sound really old, but why don't you just swap a L27 (Series 1 3800)?

 

I've never heard of anyone swapping one in, and I've never heard of any problems with it. Hell, I've never had any remotely major problems with it. They have more low end torque than the L36 has, which makes it a lot more fun to drive in the city within reasonable speeds. They're faster than a 3.1 and not much more than half a second slower in the quarter than an LQ1. I abuse the hell out of mine and it shows absolutely no signs of breaking at 180,000 miles, and I still average 23 mpg in the city with it.

 

I guess the only reason I can figure that one wouldn't want to swap in an L27 is because it probably wouldn't be much more work to get an L36 or L67 installed. But at least you don't have an intake plenum warping issue. No timing belt needs to be done, mine doesn't burn any oil, and doesn't leak a single drop of fluid to my knowledge. I haven't had to top off any fluid for at least 40,000 miles. Oh yeah, and no premature LIM gasket failure.

 

It kinda bites being the only one who actually seems to like the motor. Maybe its because it only came in Regals and 1st gen Regals aren't that popular to begin with, but I still think its one hell of a damn reliable engine and definitely worth considering for a swap if you want something faster than a 3.1, more reliable than a 3.1 or 3.4, and cheaper than a series 2 3800.

[oldscsc]

 

It kinda bites being the only one who actually seems to like the motor. Maybe its because it only came in Regals and 1st gen Regals aren't that popular to begin with, but I still think its one hell of a damn reliable engine and definitely worth considering for a swap if you want something faster than a 3.1, more reliable than a 3.1 or 3.4, and cheaper than a series 2 3800.

 

I know what you mean...everyone hates the LQ1. It's been a damn good engine to me and I've never had a minutes problem with it.

 

[xtremerevolution]

 

It kinda bites being the only one who actually seems to like the motor. Maybe its because it only came in Regals and 1st gen Regals aren't that popular to begin with, but I still think its one hell of a damn reliable engine and definitely worth considering for a swap if you want something faster than a 3.1, more reliable than a 3.1 or 3.4, and cheaper than a series 2 3800.

 

I know what you mean...everyone hates the LQ1. It's been a damn good engine to me and I've never had a minutes problem with it.

 

 

You kinda have to admit a lot of people have had their share of annoyances and problems with the LQ1 though.

[Breakdown]

This is starting to sound really old, but why don't you just swap a L27 (Series 1 3800)?

 

I have never heard of this being done, which makes me think that within the realm of reason that it cannot be done.

 

I mean, anything can be done if enough effort is put in, but transmission? Space, etc. I don't see the 3.8L being a good fit.

[White93z34]

It is not that I dislike the L27.... It is just that it is arguably no faster then a 3.1. And just as reliable. Kinda a moot swap if you ask me.

 

....Not quite sure what you are talking about "Breakdown" the trans would bolt up just fine, It would have no issues fitting. a L27 would be a drop in swap

[jeremy]

This is starting to sound really old, but why don't you just swap a L27 (Series 1 3800)?

 

I have never heard of this being done, which makes me think that within the realm of reason that it cannot be done.

 

I mean, anything can be done if enough effort is put in, but transmission? Space, etc. I don't see the 3.8L being a good fit.

 

it can definitely be done, but the work certainly would outweigh the benefit of swapping in a series I 3800

[xtremerevolution]

It is not that I dislike the L27.... It is just that it is arguably no faster then a 3.1. And just as reliable. Kinda a moot swap if you ask me.

 

....Not quite sure what you are talking about "Breakdown" the trans would bolt up just fine, It would have no issues fitting. a L27 would be a drop in swap

 

You serious man? Last I heard in the most recent thread around here, a 3.1 will do low 17's or high 16's (if its lucky) in the quarter. The 3800 Series 1 will do a whole second faster in the quarter mile than that.

 

http://www.w-body.com/forum/index.php?topic=67915.0

 

I still have the time slips showing a 16.1 in the quarter on a hot day with high humidity and no track prep, and that was before I put the roller rockers in. The L27 is arguably faster than the 3.1. The only reason why I mentioned the 3.1's reliability is because of that idiotic LIM issue. Past that I'll agree its a pretty reliable motor. The 3800 does have more torque though.

 

This is starting to sound really old, but why don't you just swap a L27 (Series 1 3800)?

 

I have never heard of this being done, which makes me think that within the realm of reason that it cannot be done.

 

I mean, anything can be done if enough effort is put in, but transmission? Space, etc. I don't see the 3.8L being a good fit.

 

it can definitely be done, but the work certainly would outweigh the benefit of swapping in a series I 3800

 

That's what I was thinking also. If someone were to put in the work to swap a 3800, might as well get an L67 swapped in. The only difference is that you'd be able to use all 1st-gen parts. Never done a swap before so my knowledge on this is extends to only what I've read on this forum.

 

This is starting to sound really old, but why don't you just swap a L27 (Series 1 3800)?

 

I have never heard of this being done, which makes me think that within the realm of reason that it cannot be done.

 

I mean, anything can be done if enough effort is put in, but transmission? Space, etc. I don't see the 3.8L being a good fit.

 

As previously mentioned, its a direct drop-in. Also the same 4T60-E transmission (though with a different FDR). Most people who swap engines as upgrades in w-bodies go for either an L36 or an L67. Otherwise, its just to replace an identical motor.

[MonteCarloDude]

You could use that money and put it into the 3100 and get some decent results also. IMO the 3.4 isnt worth all the hastle of installing and then maintaining.

 

fwiw: you couldn't do shit performance wise to a 3100 for $350

you could get a ported manifold set for $200. ( http://wot-tech.com/shop/3400/96-99-heads-and-manifolds/ported-manifold-set/prod_111.html )

a tuned PCM for $100. ( http://www.milzymotorsports.com/ )

a 3400 TB from the J/Y for about $15 bucks.

and if you want to, port and port match the exhaust manifolds for free, and your looking at a easy 12-15 HP overall, and wayyy better top end. i dont think thats too bad for less then $350 bucks.

[White93z34]

Ok, so it is a *little* bit faster. you got me there.

[RobertISaar]

You could use that money and put it into the 3100 and get some decent results also. IMO the 3.4 isnt worth all the hastle of installing and then maintaining.

 

fwiw: you couldn't do shit performance wise to a 3100 for $350

you could get a ported manifold set for $200. ( http://wot-tech.com/shop/3400/96-99-heads-and-manifolds/ported-manifold-set/prod_111.html )

a tuned PCM for $100. ( http://www.milzymotorsports.com/ )

a 3400 TB from the J/Y for about $15 bucks.

and if you want to, port and port match the exhaust manifolds for free, and your looking at a easy 12-15 HP overall, and wayyy better top end. i dont think thats too bad for less then $350 bucks.

its a 95 with 3100... be nice if we could get tuned pcms for obd1.5, especially for $100

[MonteCarloDude]

You could use that money and put it into the 3100 and get some decent results also. IMO the 3.4 isnt worth all the hastle of installing and then maintaining.

 

fwiw: you couldn't do shit performance wise to a 3100 for $350

you could get a ported manifold set for $200. ( http://wot-tech.com/shop/3400/96-99-heads-and-manifolds/ported-manifold-set/prod_111.html )

a tuned PCM for $100. ( http://www.milzymotorsports.com/ )

a 3400 TB from the J/Y for about $15 bucks.

and if you want to, port and port match the exhaust manifolds for free, and your looking at a easy 12-15 HP overall, and wayyy better top end. i dont think thats too bad for less then $350 bucks.

its a 95 with 3100... be nice if we could get tuned pcms for obd1.5, especially for $100

oops, i missed the part about it being a 95. well, you could OBD2 swap it.

[RobertISaar]

You could use that money and put it into the 3100 and get some decent results also. IMO the 3.4 isnt worth all the hastle of installing and then maintaining.

 

fwiw: you couldn't do shit performance wise to a 3100 for $350

you could get a ported manifold set for $200. ( http://wot-tech.com/shop/3400/96-99-heads-and-manifolds/ported-manifold-set/prod_111.html )

a tuned PCM for $100. ( http://www.milzymotorsports.com/ )

a 3400 TB from the J/Y for about $15 bucks.

and if you want to, port and port match the exhaust manifolds for free, and your looking at a easy 12-15 HP overall, and wayyy better top end. i dont think thats too bad for less then $350 bucks.

its a 95 with 3100... be nice if we could get tuned pcms for obd1.5, especially for $100

oops, i missed the part about it being a 95. well, you could OBD2 swap it.

for less than $350??? wheres the waiting list?

[MonteCarloDude]

You could use that money and put it into the 3100 and get some decent results also. IMO the 3.4 isnt worth all the hastle of installing and then maintaining.

 

fwiw: you couldn't do shit performance wise to a 3100 for $350

you could get a ported manifold set for $200. ( http://wot-tech.com/shop/3400/96-99-heads-and-manifolds/ported-manifold-set/prod_111.html )

a tuned PCM for $100. ( http://www.milzymotorsports.com/ )

a 3400 TB from the J/Y for about $15 bucks.

and if you want to, port and port match the exhaust manifolds for free, and your looking at a easy 12-15 HP overall, and wayyy better top end. i dont think thats too bad for less then $350 bucks.

its a 95 with 3100... be nice if we could get tuned pcms for obd1.5, especially for $100

oops, i missed the part about it being a 95. well, you could OBD2 swap it.

for less than $350??? wheres the waiting list?

i was just kidding.

[oldscsc]

 

It kinda bites being the only one who actually seems to like the motor. Maybe its because it only came in Regals and 1st gen Regals aren't that popular to begin with, but I still think its one hell of a damn reliable engine and definitely worth considering for a swap if you want something faster than a 3.1, more reliable than a 3.1 or 3.4, and cheaper than a series 2 3800.

 

I know what you mean...everyone hates the LQ1. It's been a damn good engine to me and I've never had a minutes problem with it.

 

 

You kinda have to admit a lot of people have had their share of annoyances and problems with the LQ1 though.

 

I fully agree, but most people (and I'm talking about the ones that frequent this forum) know that the 3.4 DOHC is a high mantinence engine, yet they expect it to be as easy to take care of as their SBC. I think people just ignore the high mantinence part and bitch about it which might be why the engine has a bad rap.

[RobertISaar]

You could use that money and put it into the 3100 and get some decent results also. IMO the 3.4 isnt worth all the hastle of installing and then maintaining.

 

fwiw: you couldn't do shit performance wise to a 3100 for $350

you could get a ported manifold set for $200. ( http://wot-tech.com/shop/3400/96-99-heads-and-manifolds/ported-manifold-set/prod_111.html )

a tuned PCM for $100. ( http://www.milzymotorsports.com/ )

a 3400 TB from the J/Y for about $15 bucks.

and if you want to, port and port match the exhaust manifolds for free, and your looking at a easy 12-15 HP overall, and wayyy better top end. i dont think thats too bad for less then $350 bucks.

its a 95 with 3100... be nice if we could get tuned pcms for obd1.5, especially for $100

oops, i missed the part about it being a 95. well, you could OBD2 swap it.

for less than $350??? wheres the waiting list?

i was just kidding.

i know, hell its hard to swap to obd1 for that price, for me anyways

[xtremerevolution]

 

It kinda bites being the only one who actually seems to like the motor. Maybe its because it only came in Regals and 1st gen Regals aren't that popular to begin with, but I still think its one hell of a damn reliable engine and definitely worth considering for a swap if you want something faster than a 3.1, more reliable than a 3.1 or 3.4, and cheaper than a series 2 3800.

 

I know what you mean...everyone hates the LQ1. It's been a damn good engine to me and I've never had a minutes problem with it.

 

 

You kinda have to admit a lot of people have had their share of annoyances and problems with the LQ1 though.

 

I fully agree, but most people (and I'm talking about the ones that frequent this forum) know that the 3.4 DOHC is a high mantinence engine, yet they expect it to be as easy to take care of as their SBC. I think people just ignore the high mantinence part and bitch about it which might be why the engine has a bad rap.

 

Yeah I suppose. I wouldn't know what its like since the L27 is very low maintenance (though it also makes 45 less horsepower stock).

 

Ok, so it is a *little* bit faster. you got me there.

 

Well, when you consider the specs, a 3.1 will do 17.1 on a good day, a L27 will do 16.1, and a LQ1 will do 15.5 (all stock numbers), the L27 isn't really that bad of an engine. I think most people don't swap it just because the ratio of Regals to Cutlass Supremes and Grand Prix (which all had either the 3.1 or 3.4) is pretty small, but it might be worth noting that swapping an L27 will not require you to move to OBD2 like swapping a L36 or L67 would.

 

Oh yeah, and another thing. I've towed a lot of people out of a lot of stuck places with that engine. All you need is a really thick truck strap and you'll pull anyone out of anywhere. I'll take pictures next time I tow someone, lol.

[oldscsc]

 

It kinda bites being the only one who actually seems to like the motor. Maybe its because it only came in Regals and 1st gen Regals aren't that popular to begin with, but I still think its one hell of a damn reliable engine and definitely worth considering for a swap if you want something faster than a 3.1, more reliable than a 3.1 or 3.4, and cheaper than a series 2 3800.

 

I know what you mean...everyone hates the LQ1. It's been a damn good engine to me and I've never had a minutes problem with it.

 

 

You kinda have to admit a lot of people have had their share of annoyances and problems with the LQ1 though.

 

I fully agree, but most people (and I'm talking about the ones that frequent this forum) know that the 3.4 DOHC is a high mantinence engine, yet they expect it to be as easy to take care of as their SBC. I think people just ignore the high mantinence part and bitch about it which might be why the engine has a bad rap.

 

Yeah I suppose. I wouldn't know what its like since the L27 is very low maintenance (though it also makes 45 less horsepower stock).

 

Ok, so it is a *little* bit faster. you got me there.

 

I will admit that most 3800's outlast the car they were originally put in

[grandprixnyc]

As an owner of several LQ1's, I'm not overly thrilled with it. Stick with what you have, or buy a GTP if you really want a 3.4L car. Swapping it in when these cars are so cheap is kind of pointless. You could probably find a good 3.4 car for under 1 grand.

[pontiacmaniac94]

 

Ok, so it is a *little* bit faster. you got me there.

Well, when you consider the specs, a 3.1 will do 17.1 on a good day, a L27 will do 16.1, and a LQ1 will do 15.5 (all stock numbers), the L27 isn't really that bad of an engine. I think most people don't swap it just because the ratio of Regals to Cutlass Supremes and Grand Prix (which all had either the 3.1 or 3.4) is pretty small, but it might be worth noting that swapping an L27 will not require you to move to OBD2 like swapping a L36 or L67 would.

 

Oh yeah, and another thing. I've towed a lot of people out of a lot of stuck places with that engine. All you need is a really thick truck strap and you'll pull anyone out of anywhere. I'll take pictures next time I tow someone, lol.

 

 

 

 

 

honestly? i wish my gp came with a 3.8L ANYTHING! that would be a much easier motor to work on, and that second is quite awhile considering how large the car is.

 

besides, who likes to say "yah, i am running a big bad 3.1L.....RIGHT 3.8 sounds so much more impressive.

[oldscsc]

 

Ok, so it is a *little* bit faster. you got me there.

Well, when you consider the specs, a 3.1 will do 17.1 on a good day, a L27 will do 16.1, and a LQ1 will do 15.5 (all stock numbers), the L27 isn't really that bad of an engine. I think most people don't swap it just because the ratio of Regals to Cutlass Supremes and Grand Prix (which all had either the 3.1 or 3.4) is pretty small, but it might be worth noting that swapping an L27 will not require you to move to OBD2 like swapping a L36 or L67 would.

 

Oh yeah, and another thing. I've towed a lot of people out of a lot of stuck places with that engine. All you need is a really thick truck strap and you'll pull anyone out of anywhere. I'll take pictures next time I tow someone, lol.

 

It's a V6 either way though, if you want to sound bad you get a 455 with headers through free flowing duals It can't be beat.

 

 

 

 

 

honestly? i wish my gp came with a 3.8L ANYTHING! that would be a much easier motor to work on, and that second is quite awhile considering how large the car is.

 

besides, who likes to say "yah, i am running a big bad 3.1L.....RIGHT 3.8 sounds so much more impressive.

[RobertISaar]

 

Ok, so it is a *little* bit faster. you got me there.

Well, when you consider the specs, a 3.1 will do 17.1 on a good day, a L27 will do 16.1, and a LQ1 will do 15.5 (all stock numbers), the L27 isn't really that bad of an engine. I think most people don't swap it just because the ratio of Regals to Cutlass Supremes and Grand Prix (which all had either the 3.1 or 3.4) is pretty small, but it might be worth noting that swapping an L27 will not require you to move to OBD2 like swapping a L36 or L67 would.

 

Oh yeah, and another thing. I've towed a lot of people out of a lot of stuck places with that engine. All you need is a really thick truck strap and you'll pull anyone out of anywhere. I'll take pictures next time I tow someone, lol.

 

It's a V6 either way though, if you want to sound bad you get a 455 with headers through free flowing duals It can't be beat.

 

 

 

 

 

honestly? i wish my gp came with a 3.8L ANYTHING! that would be a much easier motor to work on, and that second is quite awhile considering how large the car is.

 

besides, who likes to say "yah, i am running a big bad 3.1L.....RIGHT 3.8 sounds so much more impressive.

 

wrong, a 502 with a nasty solid lift cam, large tube headers, and 3.5" true dual exhaust with no retarded ass cats or mufflers... orgasm of the ear.

that can't be beat

[xtremerevolution]

 

Ok, so it is a *little* bit faster. you got me there.

Well, when you consider the specs, a 3.1 will do 17.1 on a good day, a L27 will do 16.1, and a LQ1 will do 15.5 (all stock numbers), the L27 isn't really that bad of an engine. I think most people don't swap it just because the ratio of Regals to Cutlass Supremes and Grand Prix (which all had either the 3.1 or 3.4) is pretty small, but it might be worth noting that swapping an L27 will not require you to move to OBD2 like swapping a L36 or L67 would.

 

Oh yeah, and another thing. I've towed a lot of people out of a lot of stuck places with that engine. All you need is a really thick truck strap and you'll pull anyone out of anywhere. I'll take pictures next time I tow someone, lol.

 

It's a V6 either way though, if you want to sound bad you get a 455 with headers through free flowing duals It can't be beat.

 

 

 

 

 

honestly? i wish my gp came with a 3.8L ANYTHING! that would be a much easier motor to work on, and that second is quite awhile considering how large the car is.

 

besides, who likes to say "yah, i am running a big bad 3.1L.....RIGHT 3.8 sounds so much more impressive.

 

wrong, a 502 with a nasty solid lift cam, large tube headers, and 3.5" true dual exhaust with no retarded ass cats or mufflers... orgasm of the ear.

that can't be beat

 

It also can't be put in a 1st gen w-body without more money than is or ever will be worth putting into a 1st gen w-body.

 

IMO the L27 all-around is the most reliable and low-maintenance engine to fit into a 1st gen w-body, and being a whole second faster in the 1/4 mile, isn't slow either (at least for that time period).