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What can I bolt up to my 4T60?


mdelorie

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i hear the 4t60 is ok. its the 4t60-e that takes forever to shift. so i hear.

 

 

btw. can you guys take a wild guess at what tranny i have? To be honest i have no clue

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Well..I'm guessing you have a 4T60E, since the 3800 was a decent sized motor back in the early 90s, and GTPs had 4T60Es for the LQ1. Just a guess though. It's usually stamped on the transmission pan...or so I've been told. I've never been able to find anything but HYDRAMATIC on my transmission pans :roll:

 

As far as durability, the E version seems to be weaker than the non-E version.

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Ok this just now crossed my minde but... the old 86-92 short body caddies had The same tranny..

 

so technicaly isnt it possible to to drop a caddy V8 ina W-body?.....I know the tranny can take up to a 4.9 but theires a very roughe jerking when it shits from 1st to 2nd gear(very roughe if under heavy acceleration) but my dad performed the swap on an 86 caddy over 2 years ago and it still holding up its drivin 3-5 days a week and has takin the 5.6hour tripp to Dallas well over 15 times with no trouble

 

I still have to measure the engine bay of my Prix and the size of a 4.9

 

we have about 4 or 5 laying around at the shop if any one is enterested they run like new but they small wholes in the blocks that need to be patched(after patching a block you just have to use the orange antifreeze to prevent acid distroying the patches

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Yes, the Caddy pushrod V8's, 4.5 and 4.9L at least, will fit a W-body.

It has been done, but there are a few reasons it's not a real desirable swap.

 

1. There is absolutely ZERO aftermarket ANYTHING for those engines. What power they produce, is how much power they're going to have. You can't add an SC or turbocharger and expect it to hold together, because these engines have enough trouble sealing on their own without huffing and puffing into them.

2. The wet sleeve design has been very problematic. I think you'd be very hard-pressed to find ANY GM Service Tech that likes these engines. They are derived from the HT4100 which was called Hopeless Trash for a reason. Coolant and oil mixing happens quite frequently in these engines.

3. The iron heads on the aluminum block also promotes uneven metal expansion and helps contribute to the sealing problems these engines have.

4. These engines simply don't produce any more power than a much smaller and more fuel efficient V6. I think the 4.9L version produced around 200HP?

 

It's just not worth the effort to use one of these engines, but I do have to say they sound quite good with a nice exhaust as all V8's do.

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Check out http://www.asgindy.com, they took a 4.9 Caddy V-8, bored out it to 5.0L, and did a lotta internal shit to bring it to around 300hp. They also took a 4T60E tranny housing and put strengthened Caddy internals in it, supposedly holding up to 400hp, so it IS possible.....for about 9k :shock:

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Yeah, they may be 300HP, but they're still Caddy wet sleeve junk that won't last.

 

I know someone that bought a Lumina built by ASG, and he had all kinds of problems with it. He ended up selling it for a 98 Regal GS.

 

GM's 60 and 90-degree V6's have a long history and they're still being used today. The Caddy wet sleeve engines are totally gone, no engine GM offers today is based on that one. There's a reason for that - they were a terrible self-grenading design the very first day the HT4100 rolled off the assembly line.

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Yeah another problem that was quite common on the AL block was the cast crank rocking back and forth, it would shave the mains, and costs about $3K to fix. Why anyone would do that is beyond me. Another interesting fact that I found out is that a 4100 from the local dealership was $3300 new/rebuilt and $800 to install it. That's $4100 coincidence I think not!

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well if your car doesnt have ABS you "maybe" able to put a 4.6 Dohc caddy motor in there... Hell it fits in a Feiro...

 

the 4100 was a Joke

as was the 4.5L the 4.9 is okay but no balls...

and the 350 Diesel that is self explanitory

 

when the Northstars came out thats when caddy started turning around..

 

hell even the 88 Fleetwood with the 5.0 was a dog untill you got to 60mph...

 

and no you cant blame that on Gear ratio because my Lincoln has 2.05 gears..and yeah it may have a bigger motor but the car is also weighs alot more {like 2000lbs} then the Fleetwood......and my lincoln kicks that caddies but every Race....hell it will even keep with a 98 Trans am from 30mph up to 100 when I thought my U joints where going to fall off..

 

and heck my lincoln has not had a tune up in 15 years...and still needs a carb rebuild and a tranny flush...

 

but then again 7.5L versus 5.0L LoL

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Yeah, they may be 300HP, but they're still Caddy wet sleeve junk that won't last.

 

I know someone that bought a Lumina built by ASG, and he had all kinds of problems with it. He ended up selling it for a 98 Regal GS.

 

GM's 60 and 90-degree V6's have a long history and they're still being used today. The Caddy wet sleeve engines are totally gone, no engine GM offers today is based on that one. There's a reason for that - they were a terrible self-grenading design the very first day the HT4100 rolled off the assembly line.

 

the wet sleeve thing was bad designe Idea but virtualy all problem with it can be fixed basicly by flushing the block and swishing to the orange non accidic antinfreeze verses the green stuff that will eat threw the aluminum sleeves.

 

 

and theire issmall after market for caddies and also some tricks the guys around hear use..

 

on the after market theirs cams and their are pcm and timing trick to get the engine puttin out more power.

 

and I would neversuggest a 4100 to anyone

 

the 4.5 and 4.9 are alot more reliable and powerfull than the 4100

 

but what would be even better is a northstar swapp...

 

mymy freind has a 4.6 northstar sedan devile and even with all the extra weighte my Gp stands no chance he got me by 2 car lengths in just 1 block

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I don't think I would choose a Caddy 4.9L over a 3800 SC or Turbo 3.1. I don't think I'd even choose it over a 3800 N/A. The V6 engines can put out as much power without having to worry about problems with the wet sleeve design.

 

The Northstar is a great engine, but still has a few little problems of its own, like oil leaks from the oil block gasket. It has an unusual 2-piece engine block and oil can leak between the two halves. The problem with this, is the engine needs to be torn completely down to fix it. This is actually a common problem with older Northstar engines.

As far as a Northstar in a W-body, it's such a wide engine from head to head that I'm almost certain there's no room firewall side and very little room radiator side. The Fiero engine bay is actually much larger than a W-body engine bay. I know a Northstar will shoehorn into a gen 2 W-body, but the gen 2's have more room on the firewall side.

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Turbo an LQ1 and put 'er in.....you'll have a reason to get a new tranny at least :D

Also, will someone explain the wet-sleeve design, I have never heard of this and would like to know about it, thanks!

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Aluminum is too soft to hold up as a cylinder bore material, so iron or steel has to be used.

Modern aluminum engines use a steel or iron liner that's cast in place right in the block. A wet sleeve engine uses removable cylinders that are set into the block. The only thing keeping coolant out of the cylinder bore, is an O-ring at the bottom and the cylinder head clamps the cylinder tightly into the block so that the O-ring seals coolant out. A common problem with the wet sleeve engines was coolant leaking past the O-ring and into the cylinder bore. Once that happens, the coolant leaks into the crankcase, and that's very very bad.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Interesting discussion. I have been doing some research on the Cad motors and have found that most of the negatives assigned to them here are well founded but by '93 the 4.9 was much improved and that a '93-'95 has a life expectancy similar to the GM V-6's. I have talked to several Caddy owners with '93-'95 4.9's that have racked up well over 100-150K with no problems. In fact this morning while scrounging parts for the '88 GP in the new arrivals section at the boneyard I stumbled across a cream puff '95 Sedan Deville with 50K on the clock and a 4.9 you could eat off of. I bought the complete drivetrain and computer out of it and will pick it up in a couple days. Then the search begins for something to drop it in. Are there better engines ? Sure but I'm an old fart and I still prefer the sound of a V-8. I just want something fun and unique plus the lack of aftermarket goodies will keep me from getting carried away. Will the recipient be a W-body ? We'll have to wait and see what comes along.

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Yeah, the V8 sound was one of the big selling points mentioned by the owner of ASG. They certainly do sound good.

As far as the GM V6, I think their life expectancy is far greater than 150k... probably more like 300k. Also, the average age of GM V6 owners is probably quite a bit younger. I think Cadillac drivers probably average 60-70 yrs of age and their driving habits are less likely to really stress an engine.

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I think Cadillac drivers probably average 60-70 yrs of age and their driving habits are less likely to really stress an engine.

 

You might be surprised on the average age, there are a LOT of young guys driving Caddies, and I mean early 20's but I'm hoping the previous owner of the motor I bought was one of the older group and could hear so he wasn't driving it around in 2nd gear all the time :( , from the condition this car was in before it got T-Boned I'd say it was very well maintained though. Like I said, you could literally eat off this motor.

 

If I was really going to hammer on this I would stick with a V-6 but I'm not. Plus it won't see that many miles a year so I should be safe. I may wind it out occasionally but for the most part I'll be satisfied to cruise down the highway listening to the exhaust and watching the puzzled look on people's faces when they can't connect the car with the sound. Like back in the 70's when I pulled up to a light and could hear a VERY healthy V-8 but the only other car there was a bone stock looking Vega wagon complete with whitewalls, woodgrain and a single tailpipe. THEN the light turned green, :shock: NOT what it appeared to be at all. Besides I still have a 454 BBC to satisfy my more primal urges. It may be archaic and inefficient but DAMN it sure is fun................ :D

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Heard it Hippie, my "toy" is going to come off the dyno soon. 509" Caddy Big Block. Now THAT'S a Caddy V-8. Stick one of those under the hood of a Dub. ASG8.3 Not any time soon. :twisted:

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