EviLette Posted May 15, 2008 Report Share Posted May 15, 2008 My rear suspension is getting close to being shot (again!). I don't have access to the receipts for ANY of my susepension parts, like I thought I did. I'm going to go down to my buddy at Oriellys the next chance I get and see if we can chase down which phone number the parts were bought on. (We've used several, and though I changed my account progressively with my new phone numbers as they changed, my mother didn't, and she bought the struts.) I didn't do housings either, had no idea i needed to do them as well. My monoleaf is also cracking. So here's what it boils down to: I've had to replace suspension now twice in the ~4 years, 60k ish that I've owned this car. I know suspension is 50-60k rec. replacement time, but I think I should consider upgrading my suspension. Couple of questions. First off, coilvers on a daily driver: How feasable/economic/intelligent would it be? I can't see getting any benefits out of gas mileage, etc, so the question really boils down to... Do coilovers have a longer life/more durability than the stock-style suspension? (Mind you, we're talking a 92 GP SE.) Secondly... on a daily driver, after converting to coilovers, how is it for driving as a DD? Any increase in suspension problems/front end issues? I know I've been fighting for the last four years to get my car to keep a damn alignment... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dohc v6 Posted May 15, 2008 Report Share Posted May 15, 2008 Honestly, I know that people are going to argue with me but I am going to say what I think of CO. The stock suspension on the w-body is ok for crusing, but if you wanna really take some turns or do any semi-fast driving, its plain out sucks. I first had sensa-tracks on my car, they were ok, but were blowing out to fast. So then I switched to KYB, they are awesome. So I decided to lower my car. Thats a big NO-NO. KYBs can not handle more than a 1.5" drop. If you lower your car there are no good shocks out there for the w-body as of yet. KYBs are ok for a stock ride hight. Now CO are a disaster for this car. I had the FFP coil-overs on my car and man they were the biggest pieces of shit ever. First the sleeves were not tight on the shocks fo the spring would move around. Then the top mounts were not designed properly fo the springs would come out of there perch if one wheel goes up, then once you come back down the spring would slam into position. With that the shocks would blow becasue to make the w-body look "flat" the rear has to be droped 3"+. Now I know that some have had good experience with them, but I did not so I sold my CO for the brichmount. The overall ride is nice, but the shocks are shit. So after the brake upgrade, KONIS are a must. Thats my 2 cents, take it or leave it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSI_MuNkY Posted May 15, 2008 Report Share Posted May 15, 2008 Honestly, I know that people are going to argue with me but I am going to say what I think of CO. We argue with you just cause its fun! lol, j/k man... sometimes its challenging, your pretty educated sometimes. The stock suspension on the w-body is ok for crusing, but if you wanna really take some turns or do any semi-fast driving, its plain out sucks. I first had sensa-tracks on my car, they were ok, but were blowing out to fast. So far, I agree with him... So then I switched to KYB, they are awesome. So I decided to lower my car. Thats a big NO-NO. KYBs can not handle more than a 1.5" drop. ok, that I don't agree with completely. IF you build your coil over kits right you will have no problems. Case in point, ME! I have only EVER bottomed out my lowered car with KYBs once, and I hit a curb at 50mph straight on. Only 1 of the KYBs failed, and it was a rear. If you use heavier springs (I have 350 in front and 300 in rear), then it is going to take a lot more bump to bottom out the struts. So avoid rally racing and off roading, and you will likely be fine. If you lower your car there are no good shocks out there for the w-body as of yet. KYBs are ok for a stock ride hight. Now CO are a disaster for this car. I had the FFP coil-overs on my car and man they were the biggest pieces of shit ever. First the sleeves were not tight on the shocks fo the spring would move around. Then the top mounts were not designed properly fo the springs would come out of there perch if one wheel goes up, then once you come back down the spring would slam into position. I have NEVER had any of these problems with my Held coil overs, you just have to make sure when you jack the car up, as you let it back down make sure your springs are seating properly before you drop it right down. With that the shocks would blow becasue to make the w-body look "flat" the rear has to be droped 3"+. Now I know that some have had good experience with them, but I did not so I sold my CO for the brichmount. The overall ride is nice, but the shocks are shit. So after the brake upgrade, KONIS are a must. Thats my 2 cents, take it or leave it. I will keep my comments about this to a minimum until I see them listed on the Koni website... no way am I putting $1000 worth of struts on my car with a voided warranty because they have been modified. Not even Held could sell me modified struts. If Koni is going to make them for our cars, I'm all over it... otherwise its a waste of time even talking about it. FWIW, My car is a DD. Some say the ride is a little harsh, but I don't mind it one bit. Especially come a nice corner where I can put the car through it hard without killing myself. Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intern8tion9l Posted May 16, 2008 Report Share Posted May 16, 2008 i have 0 problems with my FFP and KYBs. maybe i'm just not a race car driver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted May 16, 2008 Report Share Posted May 16, 2008 EviLette, what brand of rear struts did you get? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rdrckt_92 Posted May 16, 2008 Report Share Posted May 16, 2008 I went with intrax springs and a birchmount monoleaf with KYB's, The ride is kinda harsh at time on really bad roads, but I think its ok for a DD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EviLette Posted May 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2008 I haven't bought anything, I'm still contemplating. I don't know how much labor is involved in the conversion, and I obviously can't do this one on my own... and I don't know anyone with the tools, the floor space, etc., to be able to help me.. let alone anyone I know to help me -period- work on my car. I'm not really so worried about the ride... like, how harsh the ride is. Its a sports car, its not designed to feel like you're riding in a Towncar with air suspension and all of that shit. I know the ride is going to be stiff, thats to handle better.. and my car is slow! so it needs handling. I like the idea of the different spring rates (lbs) in the front versus back, it makes sense. Mind you, I'm not looking to lower my car. It's not really even an added bonus, I'm not wild about it. But I am contemplating the fact that my strut mounts, springs, monoleaf, etc., have 194k on them now... and even with fresh struts, the rest of that stuff will HAVE to be replaced at some point. It's just a matter of deciding what I want to replace it with. I'm just running into the problem over and over again that I'm NOT a mechanic, and i don't know the technical stuff to this. I don't rally race, and I've taken my car off-road like... ONCE in the last several years.. and it was unavoidable... and the guy with the lowered car seemed to make it through okay, though I didn't ask if he bottomed out (LOL.) I don't know. I'm rolling ideas around in my head is really what it boils down to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Ball Posted May 16, 2008 Report Share Posted May 16, 2008 My 92 GTP is stock and rides so much smoother than my 92 SE with all the KYB's. It's all down to if you want a smooth or bumpy/stiff ride. Myself, I love the handling of the SE, but the GTP is just so much smoother... I'd rather cruise with smoothness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EviLette Posted May 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2008 My 92 GTP is stock and rides so much smoother than my 92 SE with all the KYB's. It's all down to if you want a smooth or bumpy/stiff ride. Myself, I love the handling of the SE, but the GTP is just so much smoother... I'd rather cruise with smoothness. hrm. I'm for handling... but my FE has always felt a bit loose to me, no matter WHAT I did to it. Did some looking... I KNOW I need to replace more than just the cartridges... if I go to KYBs, should i get the boots too? I know I have to get strut mounts... what about the things they have labeled "bearings" for the front? I've never heard of those. http://www.tirerack.com/suspension/Susptabl.jsp?autoMake=Pontiac&autoModel=Grand+Prix+SE+Coupe&autoYear=1992&autoModClar=&brand=all And... do KYBs have any kind of warranty on them? can't seem to find the information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSI_MuNkY Posted May 16, 2008 Report Share Posted May 16, 2008 If your going to coil overs you do not need to buy new mounts and bearings. The Held kits include the rear mounts and new front mounts with bearings. KYBs have a limited lifetime warranty... Basically a good warrant unless you modify them (just don't glue your threaded tube on and you will be fine ) Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EviLette Posted May 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2008 which is if I go to coilovers. I'm just kind of sitting here wondering.. this car was abused before I got it... I've given it a fair share of abuse myself before it really started meaning a lot to me. Part of going to coilovers was due to the fact that (a) my monoleaf DOES need replaced and ( Just not sure how long the rest of the stock spring should be expected to last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRONER Posted May 18, 2008 Report Share Posted May 18, 2008 Here's another thread... We've cover this topic in and out. I think, ... and the answer is undivided... If your're looking for the economical upkeep of the car - well kep the stock parts ( ia have a monoleaf left over from the swap) If you go with coilovers, be ready to invest some money and mucscle into it, and you'll corner like chap. My car sits at 26 3/4 all around right now, it's stiff, very stiff, but i've NEVER bottomed out "yet" (unless i get unluck like gtpmunkey) and all in all am a happy customer with coilovers. It your choice at the end... Just keep in mind, you should have at least $2000 disposable to start this project and hunt down the parts. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSI_MuNkY Posted May 18, 2008 Report Share Posted May 18, 2008 (unless i get unluck like gtpmunkey) Thats what I get for pushing the car to its limits with winter tires on it I guess... I spent just shy of $2000 CDN last August doing my coil over swap. Of course I also got the G-Max 7/8" rear sway bar from PST, front end kit from PST, Coil overs from Held, used KYBs from DiscoStudd, Rear STB from AWEB, Front F-bar from 93Luminaz34, Trailing arms and Lateral links from Held, and front ES sway bar bushings Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EviLette Posted May 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2008 Ouch. Definitely a bit pricier than I thought it would be, lol. Guess I'm going for Monoleaf and some KYB suspension... keep the stock setup. But I still have to get mountings along with everything else.. I'm thinking... considering I'm just shy of 200k, amirite? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Ball Posted May 18, 2008 Report Share Posted May 18, 2008 My SE handles really good. Doesnt have coil overs though. Just by adding a front sway bar and KYB's helped alot. Also, 245 tires help a lot too. I still have to install a bigger front sway bar, my addco rear sway bar and the rstb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSI_MuNkY Posted May 18, 2008 Report Share Posted May 18, 2008 Yeah, KYBs and the upgraded sway bars will make a huge difference on their own. You said lowering isn't a big deal for you, and adjustablity was the big draw for me. If you want to go even more extreme you can get a stiffer monoleaf. Maybe someone can pipe up with the different makes of monoleaf. Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19Cutlass94 Posted May 18, 2008 Report Share Posted May 18, 2008 You dont need to spend $2000 for rear coilovers and swaybars.... Rear Co's are a couple hundred, and sway bars and poly bushings are about another 2. That will make your car handle MUCH better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmoore4294 Posted May 18, 2008 Report Share Posted May 18, 2008 So let me ask for your guys' honest opinion, and I'm not meaning to hijack or anything, but would you put CO's on a 1st gen without the added strength and thickness of an RSTB? Can't put one on my vert, and want to do the CO swap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19Cutlass94 Posted May 18, 2008 Report Share Posted May 18, 2008 Almost everybody here that has CO's have them on a 1Gen. The car is more than strong enough to support this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmoore4294 Posted May 18, 2008 Report Share Posted May 18, 2008 But alot that have them have the RSTB for extra support. I've seen cutouts of the strut tower sheet metal for 1st gen vs. 2nd gen and the rstb would help substantially for 1st gens, I was just wondering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19Cutlass94 Posted May 18, 2008 Report Share Posted May 18, 2008 yeah I see what you mean now... Im pretty sure that everybody with CO's have a RSTB. Its just a handling thing as well you know as well as maybe extra support. but its not going to hurt the car if you dont have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rdrckt_92 Posted May 19, 2008 Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 I am running the Birchmount monoleaf, I like it so far. The drop was not huge, but did eliminate the wheelgap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EviLette Posted May 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 I'm just trying to figure out exactly what I need to get... I'm going to go with KYBs, probably a birchmount leaf, because its' going to be easier than going to CO's. I might upgrade to those somewhere down the line, but right now.. my monoleaf is cracked, my rear suspension is trying to bottom out.. and my front end is trying to nosedive when stopping. Suspension is squishy, but not completely toasted yet... I think the rear end is sagging more because of that monoleaf. Thats the big part getting me all in a huff... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRONER Posted May 19, 2008 Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 that what you just said is a toasted suspension... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSI_MuNkY Posted May 19, 2008 Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 that what you just said is a toasted suspension... x2 But alot that have them have the RSTB for extra support. I've seen cutouts of the strut tower sheet metal for 1st gen vs. 2nd gen and the rstb would help substantially for 1st gens, I was just wondering. Stock we have coil over style suspension up front, the metal is no thicker up there than it is in the back. Structurally speaking I personally see NO reason that the rear of these cars could not handle coil overs. I have heard all the arguments disagreeing with me and honestly I still think its all BS. People were putting coil overs on these cars long before AWEB brought us the RSTB, and I have never heard of the unibody fatiguing due to it. Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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