'99 Intrigue GLS question

[krenzy]

Can anyone give me any input on these cars?

 

I'm looking at one that's cheap, has 250,000 miles, 3.5 engine...I know absolutely nothing about these. Looking for input on what's good about them, common problems, things to check, or if it's even a good idea.

[Andrew]

paging dr. dickhead, err i mean Rob.

 

i know they burn thru a quart of oil between changes, which is normal for this engine.

[krenzy]

Ok. Yeah get anyone in here who can help give me accurate info and/or personal experiences with these cars. I know nothing about them or their powertrain.

[digitaloutsider]

This is a W-body, so I'm moving your post to General, and http://www.w-body.com/content.php?deliver=sgintrigue

[krenzy]

Thanks! Guess I forgot these are W-Bodies.

[Andrew]

http://www.w-body.com/forum/index.php?topic=54104.0

 

http://www.w-body.com/forum/index.php?topic=51463.0

 

the suspension is standard 2nd gen, so all aftermarket stuff fits. coolant does NOT flow through the lower intake, virtually eliminating the need to ever change the LIM gaskets like all other GM V6's of the time. output ratings are similiar to the L36, but it is a bit faster.

 

im still trying to find the thread where Rob describes the engine really well....

[Venom]

I cant believe he hasnt chimed in yet.......

[jeremy]

I cant believe he hasnt chimed in yet.......

 

he's on vacation

[01GPGT]

damn 250k!! idk much about these motors....how much do they want for it?

[krenzy]

WE'll keep it at...a very decent price. under $2000 obviously.

[IRONDOG442]

I have input, need more time.

[IRONDOG442]

 

The Oldsmobile Intrigue started off life as any other production car, as a prototype, it was unveiled at the 1995 North American International Auto Show of 1995. The car was displayed first at the Detroit Auto Show and branded Antares. Designed by an exceptional up and coming African American Designer named Ed Welburn. The car was an immediate success earning the Media and Public’s favorite concept of the NAIAS award as voted by press agents and the general public as the best looking car of the show.

 

Right around the time that this car was being dreamed up by engineers and designers at Oldsmobile, General Motors was attempting to restructure Oldsmobile’s image and public perception as part of their “Rocketing into the Next Century†ad campaign spearheaded by the new slogan “Start Something†which celebrated the new direction Oldsmobile was going to be headed into it’s next 100 years, the turning point and release of the newly designed cars to begin shortly after their Centennial Celebration on August 21, 1997. Already their marketing direction had changed and even Oldsmobile’s logo changed from the Vertical Rocket logo or “chicken foot†as enthusiasts call it, to the ovular side sweeping rocket as seen as early as 1996 on some LSS 88 Sedans.

 

With this huge change in marketing brought an entire new lineup featuring cars designed to specifically rival the image, quality, fit, and finish of successful selling import vehicles especially Honda and Toyota. Many say the Intrigue came too early or too late depending on who you ask. Oldsmobile made an announcement that after 1997 one could no longer order any Oldsmobile passenger car with a bench seat and column shift in order to ditch their former geriatric image. All of these changes with the later addition of the sporty new Alero (N-body) which replaced the aging and somewhat stodgy Achieva brought a promising outlook and new hope for an otherwise stale and weak division. There were literally no outside markings that identified the new 1998 Intrigue as an Oldsmobile because GM wanted to give their new can an Intriguing appearance.

 

The Intrigue was introduced to replace the Cutlass Supreme later than hoped, in May 1997 as an early '98 model The “premium†V-6 Northstar based Dual Overhead cam engine specifically designed for the car was not ready at the time of the launch, and as a result the workhorse of the GM thoroughbreds, the L36, 3.8 liter-231 cubic inch, pushrod v-6 was offered as the only available power plant. This 195 horsepower engine propelled the car to a 15.2 sec Elapsed Quarter mile time at 87.54 miles per hour and the car was offered as a single model designation with virtually any option offered as a stand alone option. The cars base price was $22,975 and standard equipment was generous which included power windows, power door locks, keyless entry, cruise control, alloy wheels, tilt steering wheel, power mirrors, power steering, power brakes, 4 wheel anti lock disc brakes, and auto head lamp/twilight sentinel.

 

For the 1999 model year the car’s premium LX-5 “Shortstar†V-6 engine was finally ready for it and offered on GL and GLS models as an option and the L36 was offered standard on GX models. This proved to be yet another immediate success much like the car itself; the engine was awarded one of the Ward’s Top Ten engines, an absolutely incredible accolade considering the fact that it was a first year design. Wards said “probably nowhere else can you buy such performance and high tech engineering at such a low priceâ€Â. The engine produced 215 horsepower and 230 pound feet of torque propelling it to a 15.0 second at 90.78 mph quarter mile elapsed time run. Drivers of the car reported and absolutely stunning 50-90 mph response time due to the cars usable power band at virtually all RPMs. The only downside of the engine is that it was very expensive to produce and very time consuming to build.

 

Very few changes were made to this car with the exception of the elimination of the L36 being put into these vehicles in 2000 and the LX-5 was the only power plant offered from 2000 till the 2002 model year. Alloy rim styles were changed in 2000, as well as a new stability control system called Precision Control System or PCS was added to the options list which included a YAW control sensors and variable braking leveling active suspension system. In 2001 Intrigues were equipped with ON STAR and in 2002 a driver’s side lumbar seat, two tone leather seats, and a new headliner material was introduced. Each year offered different colors, the easiest way to identify the difference between years is either the exterior color or the style of alloy rims it was riding on. In 2002 the final Intrigues rolled off the Fairfax, Kansas assembly line. In celebration of the last 500 Intrigues produced in 2000 Oldsmobile offered primarily a appearance collectors edition package called the “Intrigue Final 500†which could be identified by a Black Cherry Metallic exterior finish, cloisonné Final 500 Oldsmobile Globe emblems, 17 inch chrome alloy Aurora wheels, special trimmed interior and a certificate verifying the production number of each car that rolled off the final assembly line.

 

Oldsmobile loved their Intrigues and used many different 2000 and 2001 models for test platforms to market aftermarket and specialty parts which were shown at SEMA in Las Vegas in 2000, AutoWeek magazine reviewed the Oldsmobile Specialty Vehicle or OSV Intrigue concept car which debuted at that show, which featured Candy Apple Red Ghost paint, over sized wheels, a performance braking system, and a supercharged LX-5 v-6 and later a production 4.0 liter Aurora v-8 power Forest Green Intrigue OSV. The latter of which were literally only months away from actually being produced, according to Special Vehicle Division Manager Richard Balsley. Other special Intrigues specifically for showing purposes were also constructed some off which included the Intrigue Saturday Night Cruiser (a pearl yellow custom 2000 Intrigue), the Polar Bear Intrigue (a white 2001 with custom wheels a polar bear painted on the side and a freezer in the trunk with dual buckets in the back), the SC-3 Intrigue a Zebra/Tiger Striped Intrigue with custom wheels Pearl Blue paint job and custom interior and exhaust, and last but certainly not least the Intrigue 442 which had a Custom body kit, custom w-25 Outside Air Induction Hood, custom wheels, custom interior, pearl white and gold finish, and a performance Aurora V-8. The OSV idea was abandoned only due to General Motor’s decision to phase put the Oldsmobile division which was announced to the pubic in December of 2000.

 

There are a variety of theories as to Oldsmobile was phased out, some say it was due to General Motor’s over coverage of the same market, some say it was due to the fact that Oldsmobile simply wasn’t making enough profit, or others have said that the Intrigue specifically cost too much money to produce with the engine and the quality of parts used in it’s assembly. I have heard that each Intrigue produced actually cost GM $2,500 per unit of loss. The Alero was the last Oldsmobile which rolled out of Lansing on April 29, 2004 . All things considered the Intrigue was an excellent car that provided the customer excellent value, superb reliability, and outstanding service.

 

 

[IRONDOG442]

More difficult yet to find is feedback and answers about the "Shortstar" aka LX5 engine. To my knowledge, the Oldsmobile Intrigue is the only GM to use this engine. It is 3.5L in displacement, for those who are not familiar, and shares many of the traits of the Northstars. Most importantly are the all aluminum block and heads and DOHC design.

 

I have read on this site already about oil consumption traits and characteristics of the Northstar. I have recently been noticing heavy oil consumption in my 2000 Oldsmobile Intrigue. I have had the vehicle since February 2004 and have tacked about 12000 miles onto it to total just under 113000 currently. I don't see any signs of leakage underneath and have seen NO oil spots on the driveway. Two weeks ago, 3/4 a qt was added to top off the oil (cold engine). This past friday, I added an additional quart to the engine (cold) to top it off. I am a bit concerned about this as there was just over 300 miles in between adding. I did the obvious thing and changed the PCV valve a few months back as it has been using SOME oil since I have owned it. It seems recently, however, that the consumption has increased. My last oil cange, I put in 5w30 QuakerState HighMilage (non-synthetic) to see if the oil brand used previously had been effecting the consumption. This, however, proved not to be the case as the consumption seemed to increase further with the different oil. I am slightly less worried after finding that it is NOT an uncommon thing to add oil to this engine, but I AM still concerned because I feel as if I am having to add too much. Any input on this would be appreciated! Thanks!

 

 

The Shortstar uses much the same piston and ring package as the Northstar so it also benefits from "exercising" to keep the rings free in the piston grooves and free of carbon. Flog it regularly. That engine is extremely robust and enjoys one of the lowest warranty claims and problems/100 engines in the industry, period. You practically can't hurt it.

 

Keep the oil level at the mid to low end of the operating range, CHECK IT HOT and stop topping off like that. You're probably causing most of the problem by continually topping off and topping off cold. ALWAYS CHECK IT HOT AND NEVER OVERFILL. If you top off to the full mark cold you're overfilling.

 

That engine was used in the Olds Intrigue (which is a very nice package also and tremendously underrated) and also the Olds Aurora for 2000-2002, If I'm not mistaken. Use 5W30 conventional oil in the engine. Any brand with the GF-3/GF-4 starburst symbol is fine. These engines and cars are their own worst enemy. The engine has almost 120,000 miles on it and you are worried about a little potential oil consumption...

 

 

[IRONDOG442]

The subject of oil consumption really does not have a "final" answer. The fact is that there is some variability in oil consumption in all production engines.... regardless of who makes them on which continent. All the manufacturers recognize this and virtually all of them will call oil consumption as great as 1 quart in 1000 miles "normal" "acceptable" "allowable" "within production tolerances" etc... This doesn't mean that all engines will get 1000 MPQ or that the engine was designed to get 1000 MPQ...it just recognizes the fact that there are going to be some engines that get 1000 MPQ that will be perfectly fine upon disassembly and will have nothing "wrong" with them.

 

The variables that usually enter into oil consumption are primarily associated with the piston/ring/cylinder bore. The number of valves or type of valve actuation has little to do with it.

 

The single biggest variable and the one that has been discussed at great length on this forum is the cylinder bore finish or the cylinder honing pattern. The higher performance the engine is the more attention must be paid to the honing pattern and retention of oil on the cylinder walls to lubricate the piston and rings at full load , high RPM operation. The Northstar engine uses a very aggressive cylinder bore finish that tends to retain a lot of oil to protect the piston and rings. When the blocks are honed at the factory there is a tolerance in the bore finish due to the fact that the honing stones will wear and need replacement. A brand new stone gives a slightly more aggressive pattern than a "used" stone....so a block honed with new stones will have a more aggressive finish and most likely will use more oil.

 

Another variable is bore roundness. Like it or not, the bores tend to "move" slightly as the engine heats up and cools down and bolt tensions relax, etc. over time. All this contributes to slight bore out of roundness that is not bad or good...just different.

 

Carbon buildup in the rings and ring sealing are also variables that come into play with break in, operating schedule, type of oil used, etc.

 

The one thing that I can attest to is that many, many customer oil consumption complaint engines have been torn down with absolutely nothing wrong found. The engines are often reassembled and put into test cars and driven by the engineers and more often than not the high oil consumption does not repeat itself !!! The single biggest common cause seems to be breakin...or lack there of. Many, many oil consuming NOrthstar engines are "fixed" by some full throttle operation. I often joke about "driving it like you stole it" but it really is no joke. The Northstar engine was designed as a high performance engine to be run hard and fast. Those that are run hard typically exhibit excellent ring seal, little carbon build up and good oil economy. We have seen engines with tens of thousands of miles on them that the rings have not sealed or mated to the sides of the ring grooves because the operating schedule was so light duty. The moral here is to flog it .... often.

 

In any case, the nice thing about the engines with the more aggressive honing pattern is that the pistons, rings and bores will last forever. It is very common to tear down a 200,000 mile Northstar engine and still see the original honing pattern in the cylinders. There is never any sign of cylinder wall wear and the idea of a wear "ridge" at the top of the cylinder bore is something that is laughable on a Northstar.

 

The other nice thing about a little oil consumption is that it adds tremendous safety factor to the oil change interval. Nothing could be better for the engine than an occasional quart of fresh oil. You can take the worst oil on the market and add a fresh quart every 1000 miles and over the life of the engine the wear will be better than an engine run on the best oil with no adds between changes.

 

While no one in the engineering community wants high oil consumption the fact is that there is some variability in the oil consumption of an engine manufactured at the rate of 1200 per day. The specs of what is "normal" simply reflects this...it does not imply that all engines would get this or that something is wrong with and engine that gets more or less oil consumption.

 

There have been a lot of engineering changes over the years on the Northstar aimed at reducing the overall oil consumption and reducing the variability in the oil consumption of different engines. Many changes have been made to the honing process to make it more consistent. Changes to the piston and ring groove treatment have been made to make it more resistant to wear, pound out and micro welding at low oil retention rates. Regardless, there is still some variability.

 

One other thing that affects oil consumption, or the customers perception of oil consumption, is the move toward longer and longer change intervals. With the allowable change interval reaching as high as 12,500 miles on a 2003 Northstar if the oil life monitor is followed this could mean the addition of 3,4 or 5 quarts of oil to a very healthy engine. If the owner changes their oil every 2000 or 3000 miles, despite the oil life monitor recommendations, then they would not have to add any oil between changes. The oil consumption is the same....the amount added between changes is all that is different. Yet, many customers do not make the distinction. Field surveyors repeatedly show that "acceptable" oil consumption means "not having to add between changes"...whatever MPQ that is...???

 

The issue of oil consumption is very emotional , too, as many people perceive higher oil consumption as 'poor quality" or an indication that something is wrong. Blue smoke, fouling plugs, noise, etc...is a sign of something wrong. Using 1 quart in 1000 miles might be perfectly normal for an engine that has the high limit "rough" hone finish and is perfectly in spec...yet it will be perceived differently.

 

The Northstar engine in particular was designed to be a high performance engine and to perform well at high speeds and high loads. The engines are tested at loads and speeds for time periods few customers will ever be able to duplicate. It is unfortunate that the engineering that goes into making the engine capable of such running sometimes contributes to more oil consumption... especially as the production machining tolerances are taken into account.

 

The items mentioned about overfilling also apply. Make sure that the system is not overfilled as any excess oil will be pushed out the PCV. The best bet is to always check the oil hot and keep it midway between the add and full mark. Don't always top off and don't top off cold to the full mark as that will overfill the sump.

 

Hope this helps rather than adding more fuel to the fire... so to speak.

 

Incidentally, there is a lot in the message board / forum archives... check using "oil consumption" and read up. Always keep in mind that for every "oil burner" you read about on the internet there are 10,000 or more driving around perfectly fine that the people are not posting about... You are always going to read about the horror cases on the internet.

 

 

[IRONDOG442]

Likes: Mad torque usable at nearly any rpm range, incredible 60-100 mph time, sweet ass sound when WOT is achieved , even better with good dual exhaust system (like my SC3 Intrigue), The lower ends can actually handle a supercharger/turbocharger witout lasting damaging effects. A complete assmebly with a 4t65e trans and entire ECU system with 36,000 miles with the engine cradle still bolted to it on ebay a few months back sold for $231 and since they used them in the Auroras and Intrigues they fill the salvage yards up, they last forever so no one needs replacments as a result engine assmeblies COMPLETE are dirt cheap and they usually come withh all accesories and sensors. DOHC 24 valve v-6s rule!!!

 

Dislikes: after 36k miles they use 1 quart of oil every thousand miles, this is due to the fact that the tolerances inside the engine are so tight that the oil rings on the pistons actually spin letting trace amounts of oil into the combustion chamber burning about 32 ounces per 1,000 miles. Coil pack assemblies are like the quad 4 which is the spark plug wire the igintion module and the coil packs are all one unit, this means that there is no aftermarket company producing them and they are a dealer item only they cost $300 each.. but the good news is you can go to a salvage yard and buy a complete engine with them mounted to it for the same price all while getting the other sensors free. Replacing the alternator on them is a PITA although its not as bad as the LQ1.

 

And the timing chain is a single row roller unit that lasts up to 300k miles and has very little friction while turning the cams. The intake manifold on the 3.5 is much more efficient as well.

 

Info I found the second one is about a manual trans flywheel centerforce now produces.

 

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3165/is_2000_Jan/ai_62949280

 

http://www.jpmagazine.com/projectbuild/154_0505_1953_jeep_dj_3a/

 

I have a sweet GM official book all about the design of the Shortstar but I cant find it.

 

 

That ought to keep you busy for a while.

[GOT2B GM]

neat write up!

[CED]

Nice write up but in a w-body a 3.8 isn't going to see 15.2 and the 3.5 isn't going to do a 15flat other than that everything else is on point.

[Euro]

15.2 @87mph? lol...I ran a 15.7 stock at 87mph.

 

 

[CED]

15.2 @87mph? lol...I ran a 15.7 stock at 87mph.

 

 

I ran a 15.8 stock at 86mph in my 97 gt

 

[IRONDOG442]

Hey man that is what Car and Driver advertised the cars performance and it is in the back of their book from 1999. I didnt make the numbers up and pull them out of my ass. Keep in mind two things, these are brand new vehicles, which are tuned and usually have no smog equipment on them because they are test cars not production and second These guys are paid professionals and thats all they do all day long is launch these cars. None of us would ever get those numbers.

 

Euro your ET is not always just trap speed, my Dads '67 GTO tops out at 99 mph but is at 99mph almost halfway down the track with his 4.33 posi rear end.

 

I firmly believe that a 15.2 and a 15.0 were obtainable numbers in an early test non smogger non secondary air injection system Intrigue.

 

 

And by the way CED, Who the fuck are you again?!?!?!?!

 

STFU NOOB !!!

[CED]

 

And by the way CED, Who the fuck are you again?!?!?!?!

 

STFU NOOB !!!

I'm one of the new guys!Unless C&D did some seious weight reduction or a 25 shot I don't see anyone of thoes cars hitting those times, the traps are about right but I just don't see this happening

[Brian P]

you ever drive an Intrigue 3.5?

[CED]

you ever drive an Intrigue 3.5?

Yes and my 98 Intrigue is my second car,the 3.5 pulls better but it is not a 15 flat car no way,just like my 98 is not a 15.2 car.

[IRONDOG442]

Was it an autobahn equipped 3.5 Intrigue ??? Most of them are not!

 

there is a significant difference in top end governing speeds and first gear ratio.

 

I think I am going to end the discussion/debate here and take my or my wife's Intrigue to the track.

 

 

or run the SC-3 LOL

[jeremy]

I think I am going to end the discussion/debate here and take my or my wife's Intrigue to the track.

 

 

or run the SC-3 LOL

 

I'll meet you up at Milan some Wednesday night for test and tune