kaptnjack Posted April 23, 2008 Report Share Posted April 23, 2008 I bought a 93 cutty vert 3.4L on Feb 16 and towed it to a local tranny shop....its still there. almost three months. They have had the tranny out three times, full rebuild, new pump and parts...They thought the valve body was warped so they blocked it..put it back together....still doesnt pull. Now they say that its probably the case that is warped and they want to now find a used tranny to put in it. I guess its possible for a case to warp but that seems like a one in a million deal. anybody got any experience or advice for this nightmare? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted April 23, 2008 Report Share Posted April 23, 2008 they're "punting" the job. They probably overlooked something simple. What's the tranny doing wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GutlessSupreme Posted April 23, 2008 Report Share Posted April 23, 2008 The case warped that's a good one. Must be from all that power the DOHC was putting through it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonteCarloDude Posted April 23, 2008 Report Share Posted April 23, 2008 Now they say that its probably the case that is warped you need to take it to a new shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89SupremeCutty Posted April 23, 2008 Report Share Posted April 23, 2008 Now they say that its probably the case that is warped you need to take it to a new shop. x2. that's a bullshit excuse if i ever heard one. kinda sounds like they think that people will believe anything. they've probly tried to sell blinker fluid and a second transmission to people who have to put their cars in reverse for whatever reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mach 5 Posted April 23, 2008 Report Share Posted April 23, 2008 Does that warped case also have a distributor cooler? I would have that looked into as it would prevent it from becoming warped. No really, go somewhere else as they have the case of lets just replace it. -Jarek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted April 23, 2008 Report Share Posted April 23, 2008 you need a case cooler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaptnjack Posted April 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2008 Well...Im kinda stuck there...its 70 miles away....the car is in parts....I ve got hundreds $ tied up and so do they 30 year old shop...the ASE tech has built for 15 years....a full teardown and rebuild was done the first time including all GM updates, new converter etc. When I bought the car...it wouldnt pull in any gear. The family I bought it from owned the car for ten years...had just spent 2 grand on it new top, tires, wheels, alternator, brakes etc....three weeks later.....The owners were driving it down the interstate and it lost all its gears. They towed it home...fooled around with it...asked around at some shops etc but eventually threw a tarp over it and it sat 9 months before I found it. When I first looked at it...with it running at idle...you could pull it down in gear and feel a slight "grab" in the seat of your pants and the engine would drop about 200rpm...go to neutral...get the rpm's back...stick it in reverse....same effect as drive. But thats it...no pull. I checked the axles at lock to lock, I checked fluids of course, the battery had been dead for months so no codes could be read really. ...I pull the harness connector in an attempt to get it to go into failsafe mode, checked all fuses in both boxes....nothing worked. Instead of a 140 mile wrecker call...I opted after some discusion to tow to a local shop where all this started. I have been to the shop a dozen times, I was there when they dropped the pan the first time...when they had the tranny sprawled out on the bench...first time...second time too. I saw the pump and it was chewed up....2 weeks looking for the right pump...the shop kinda gave up on it and finally slipped and told me the problem....they couldnt find the right pump part. I took the casting numbers from the pump and found 3 new ones via an hour on google....one in russia...two in Kuwait....I got no reply from either. I found one used one in the entire US as far as could be determied and it was 3300 miles away in portland oregon. I had it shipped COD to the tranny shop and it was a nice clean part and the right one this time. Tranny was hot bathed and cleaned....all new full rebuild kit all updates etc...put it in....wouldnt pull. Based on my assumption and interptretation of the response I got when I asked what it was doing.....and not a full direct answer at that...it was acting the same as it was before the work was done. They pull it back out...take it apart and go through it again...everything looked good they thought except ...they found some slight cupping or distortion in the valve body. I was there...I saw it too. I watched him begin to block surface the valvebody and later learned he felt he had it straightened out....he went through the tranny again and built it...put it back in and.....same problem. Now...I have been worried at times that they may be taking advantage of me but given the fact that I witnessed these things personally, have a good working knowlege of vehicle repair, mechanics skills and an old parts man...and add the fact that these repeated R&R's are a financial disaster for the shop tying up racks, benches and men again and again not to metion fluids and gaskets etc. We are all hurting I think. I talked with them today and learned they have ordered another valvebody and channel plate after much searching. Again they had three suppliers that could not get or find the right part for this oddball transmission. The one they "think" they found had to come from arkansas and they hope its the right one. Now....the story continues as...the new valvebody was shipped 11 days ago to travel 700 miles UPS....it got misdelivered and has been delayed as well.....more fun. The shop owner tells me today...assuming the new valvebody ever arrives and is correct...they will go through the tranny again and install it. If it does the same thing....they are left only with the conclusion after replacing everything in it that...the case is warped and we need to find a junkyard tranny, go through that one with a full rebuild and see if that resolves these many issues. Its an adventure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted April 23, 2008 Report Share Posted April 23, 2008 damn!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1138 Posted April 23, 2008 Report Share Posted April 23, 2008 This is what happens when you don't maintain your valence. Nobody believes it, but your TRANNY CASE WILL WARP!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaptnjack Posted April 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2008 Are you talking about the black plastic panel under the bumper between the foglights? Kind of a gravel sheild I thought but it surely has some aero and cooling effect. I guess with the valance missing, there would be a measurable temp difference between the air/front side and the backside...cooling at different temps could be a factor too I guess. I never considered this...where did you get this info or is it personal experience...please describe. The shop owner today said after I made the point that... while its possible for aluminum to warp under high heat conditions...you could guess that maybe one in a million do... He agreed it was rare but he had seen several over the years and had recently discarded all his old cores and many had a big red X painted on them...denoting warpege Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Posted April 23, 2008 Report Share Posted April 23, 2008 Are you talking about the black plastic panel under the bumper between the foglights? Kind of a gravel sheild I thought but it surely has some aero and cooling effect. I guess with the valance missing, there would be a measurable temp difference between the air/front side and the backside...cooling at different temps could be a factor too I guess. I never considered this...where did you get this info or is it personal experience...please describe. The shop owner today said after I made the point that... while its possible for aluminum to warp under high heat conditions...you could guess that maybe one in a million do... He agreed it was rare but he had seen several over the years and had recently discarded all his old cores and many had a big red X painted on them...denoting warpege It's a joke an old member made about not having a valance will cause your tranny to go kaput, an old inside joke. I'd see what the happens after the valve body goes in and then thank them, pay what you owe and go to another shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted April 23, 2008 Report Share Posted April 23, 2008 Prospeeder. :willynilly: :willynilly: :willynilly: :willynilly: :willynilly: It IS true that the valence directs alot of air towards the TGP specific tranny cooler. I looked at that on Matt's car! Matt. FIX THAT VALENCE!!! I'm NOT helping you change a TGP tranny again!!!! :willynilly: :willynilly: I bet that they have missed something simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfangd Posted April 23, 2008 Report Share Posted April 23, 2008 thats weird i have never come across that before. i will have to find out more about this as i have never heard of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted April 24, 2008 Report Share Posted April 24, 2008 tranny cases dont warp, they just dont. They crack. Honestly, it sounds like the differential in it is bad... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89SupremeCutty Posted April 24, 2008 Report Share Posted April 24, 2008 while reading the long post i imediately thought that the pump in the trans is gone. same thing happened to my dads awd caravan. but if they went through the whole tranny, they would have seen a bad diff, or at least i would assume so. to me it sounds like they are dicking you around. not being able to find another pump for it sounds like bull to me. it dosn't seem right that a popular fwd tranny has no parts available for it. it also dosn't make any sense that they didn't find the warped valve body the first time they tore it down. i think someone is turning bolts for fun over at that tranny shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaptnjack Posted April 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2008 normally I would call bullshit too but...I was there...saw the pump...spent a couple days trying to find one and eventually found only one. The pump in this tranny is the "2 switch-no air bleed valve" all pumps available where 2 switch with the bleed valve. The pumps also come in two flavors.....10 or 11 bolt and 13 bolt. weird to me too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted April 24, 2008 Report Share Posted April 24, 2008 I assume they checked the fluid pressure while the car was running? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EviLette Posted April 24, 2008 Report Share Posted April 24, 2008 This is what happens when you don't maintain your valence. Nobody believes it, but your TRANNY CASE WILL WARP!! All my fault. My GP has no valence, tranny was slipping. An old member suggested my tranny could be failing due to overheating because of a lack of valence there to direct the air to cool the tranny properly. I almost bought into it, LOL. Just an old inside joke, figured I'd let you in if nobody else already has. It sounds like you have a nightmare going on with that car. But if I was in your position with my GP, I'd be doing the same thing. Struggling, fighting tooth and claw to find the right parts and make my baby run again. I admire your determination, and hope everything comes out alright... in a hurry and I just read the first page or so of this post... But seriously, good luck. I'll read the rest when I get home this evening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93CutlassSupreme Posted April 24, 2008 Report Share Posted April 24, 2008 Seriously, how long are you going to leave your car at this "shop" and get keep on getting fucked? This place obviously doesn't know what they are doing. Rebuilds of a 4T60E aren't exactly rocket science for a competent trans shop and happen on a daily basis without the bullshit you are being told and obviously believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaptnjack Posted April 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2008 I don't know how long........ I have intimate experience with this deal and its evolved into a complicated situation. However, having lived with it daily for 10 weeks...watching the perfect dash roll up from the temp change, rolled up windows and direct sun and....paint that got on the car while the shop was repainting their building on a boomtruck in 30mph winds and all the other hassles, travel, frustration and disappointments.......I have decided to hang in there....help in whatever way I can and be reasonable about it..... Logic dictates that the best path is to work through the deal in a level headed fashion and try to get the car back together and repaired as originally intended. Flying off the handle, calling a rollback and attempting to seize the car and find three boxes of parts and bolts, drag it home and trying to piece it back together under a cloud of dispute, conflict and legal/court stuff....dont make no sense to me. I'm hangin' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaptnjack Posted May 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2008 Well...the ordered valvebody got here...finally...and it was wrong too. The shop spent another day looking through various parts in various locations and gave up. I am now tasked with finding the proper valve body for a replacement. At this point...if I find one....(they tell me this is all thats left to try short of starting over with a full JY tranny replacement w/rebuild)...we will try it and see if it solves the issue. The Tech expressed yesterday that he thinks there is an unseen crack somewhere in the valvebody allowing pressure blowby. So...as we speak...I am on the search for a valve body with the following markings... Lester 30 171 92 316 Channel Plate markings.... CAV 50 8682217 general info 1993 4t60e 3.4L DOHC CWW tranny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted May 1, 2008 Report Share Posted May 1, 2008 Personally I'd say if they make that suggestion with starting over w/ a junkyard tranny, I'd do that. Unless he physically found this speculated crack in the valve body, I wouldn't bother assuming that is the problem. It's just going to be a waste of time, effort and money. I'm not sure about your junkyards, but I could pick up a working trans thru a full-service yard for under $300. I keep meaning to check the symptom chart in my GM tech manual for possible causes of no gear engagement. Usually the simple things (misplaced check ball in the valve body, wrong valve body gasket cutout) can wreak havoc like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaptnjack Posted May 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2008 Well.......I finally found a matching valve body, channel plate and pump assembly. The newly aquired assembly was completly different in design than the old one that came out of the tranny. They had the same GM part/casting numbers but a different design....go figure. Turns out that the tranny in my car is a 93 with a late 92 design that was only made for about three months according to ATSG. This is why I (WE) have had such a wierd adventure with this thing trying to find parts. Get this... this may help someone down the road. my original channel plate had three solenoids GM part 8682217, CAV50. The new CP had 4 solenoids...GM part 8682217, CAV54 my original valvebody was marked lester 30, 171. The new VB was a lester 30, A117. also...the pump that came woth the CP and VB had no swithes or bleed valve but...the original pump in my tranny had 2 switches and no bleed valve....they were both marked 1507/1508. How crazy is that? Now get this.....Scott at Lory's Transmission Parts put all this together for me...this guy is razor sharp. He contacted a tech at ATSG and they pulled original GM white papers, traced worm tracks, design changes related to switches, valves and solenoids, accumalator and more...they determined the new assembly...if put in as one matching set...even with the odd solenoid/switch design....would work with the original harness and TCU/PCM. They said..just put it in, leave the fourth solenoid unattached and it would work. We did it a little different because we felt that the PCM would need signals from the pump switches and opted to swap the old pump onto the new assembly to achieve that. Otherwise there would be two connectors flopping around not connected....none of us could get our collective head around that. So, against the direction of ATSG and Lory's...the tranny guy used the old pump after a lot of comparison and prayer...... Its fixed, running and home. So far....150 miles and very nice. I am still waiting on further discussions with Lory's about the pump issue and the hybrid swap we did. more to follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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