"lightning" "cap" "capacitor" or WHATEVER lol

[Ryan from Ohio]

Oh and for reference on the strands to diameter thing:

 

http://www.brimelectronics.com/AWGchart.HTM

 

Cheers!

[Garrett Powered]

I need to read up on something? I suggest you go back and re-read what I said. might learn something.

 

here.

 

 

. lol, is that why you thought they used smaller strands? thats for flexibility.

 

 

 

 

why does my cap need to charge when it constantly stays charged? you only charge it once when you first hook it up....where did you get your figures for your time constances? or are you just pulling numbers out your ass?

 

 

go look at welding cable. 4 gauge is smaller than car audio wire 4 gauge, like I said I think one is metric and the other is standard.

 

 

leaving the stock charge wire on effectively makes that wire longer, kind of like a coil of wire, make sense?. If you had a cap with a digital meter you would see a higher voltage with the stock charge wire disconnected. even with it in the trunk. I can view my cap in my trunk from the driver seat.

 

[Ryan from Ohio]

 

Sometime si wonder if your joking or serious.

 

First off I agreed with you on the flexiblity issue, thats why i said what I said That is true. (see im not out to get you ).

 

"why does my cap need to charge when it constantly stays charged?"

 

Thats incorrect. If you have a capacitor in your system while in use its in a constant charge/discharge state. the ESR of the cap is lower than the battery or alternator, therefore energy is stored there and will come from there first.

 

"you only charge it once when you first hook it up"

 

Thats the intial charge. Its meant to slowly build the cap up to capacity.

 

"go look at welding cable. 4 gauge is smaller than car audio wire 4 gauge, like I said I think one is metric and the other is standard"

 

Being a Machinist and Engineer Ive seen a lot of wleding cable. Like I said the smaller the strands, the larger the total copper diameter neds to be to carry the same amperage.

 

"leaving the stock charge wire on effectively makes that wire longer, kind of like a coil of wire, make sense?"

 

No it doesnt. electric will take the path of least resistance, period. What provides more resistance? 10 awg wire or 0 awg wire? I rest my case.

 

"If you had a cap with a digital meter you would see a higher voltage with the stock charge wire disconnected. even with it in the trunk."

 

Pics or i dont believe. And even at that you could have some strange anamoloy.

 

The numbers are what they are. If you would care to educate yourself ou would know... Its not top secret info, its widely available and taught in electronics 101 at msot colleges...

 

 

 

[Ryan from Ohio]

strange dbl post?

[xtremerevolution]

Ryan, you do realize you can put multiple quotes in one post instead of posting 2-4 times in response to yourself...

[Garrett Powered]

I think he is just arguing just for the sake of arguing, hoping that will somehow take away from the helpfulness of my experience. I have seen it before with this one guy I hired who was a complete moron but was the champion of the debate team in high school. he lost his job with me for something his own fault and then went on to forklift drive and dumped a $900 load and came back crying for his job back like I was going to give him his job back. now hes an unemployed loser.

 

welp theres my little story for the day, bye.

 

 

[Ryan from Ohio]

Ok enough is enough.

 

Helpfulness of your post?

 

The only thing you have managed to get right in this entire thread is there is more strands to give the wire better flexibility...

 

Im not arguing a thing. The facts are the facts, you wont change that. Fact is your wrong and have been wrong numerous times in the past. Cope with the truth.

 

For some odd reason you pad yourself around some "experiences" full of assumptions, myths and incorrect information/thoughts/theories.

 

I can tell you Im not the only one around her harboring this opinion also... If you will note through out most of these issues I have asked you to seek out information so you will learn. Ive tried to explain it to you. I want this hobby/industry to grow and wish it to prosper. I help aide it by helping others out along the way spending countless hours over the spans of years (read 8+ on the net) for no personal gain.

 

From what Ive seen you jump in these threads, throw out some myths, incorrect information. You get confronted... Now you give yourself an "atta boy Im doing a good deed"?

 

I do admire the fact you desire to help. But realize when you provide incorrect information it does not help. Its best to be as accurate as possible all the time. Otherwise you slip... Then next thing you know your just giving out bad info/advice.

 

Im not saying Im bullet proof and Im never wrong. Its not usual, but it happens. In this case its not happening.

 

Sorry to anyone else I may have upset with this bickering, but something needed to be said. I think everyone can see the goal and point... If not feel free to e mail me direct if need be. ryan@caraudiocentral.net

[Garrett Powered]

you should get into debate. seriously you are good.

 

that guy was explaining how he won all the time. no matter what his opponent said, they could be a total expert on the subject and he would just cut them down. and he didnt have to know anything really about the topic to win. all he had to do was make them get back on their heels and get all alpha on them and he could come out with the win.

 

but seriously if you want to help with people understanding things and if you are in to spending countless hours on the web for no personal gain, might as well do it effectively because someone browsing isnt going to want to spend time skimming through pages of this type of bullshit. luckily this is just a stupid capacitor thread. still some good info though and now its ruined. you should just let people voice their opinion and try to add something useful and leave it at that.

 

but if several people cant see how having a giant coil of resistance in the charge wire, I mean thats pretty obvious to me but hey, I got a cap I can look at and see the difference. I guess it took an experiment for me to actually see it. or you can just take my word for it and use your own personal experience from like high school and shit working with coil resistors or wherever else like working with subwoofers and throw a coil on it to see what happens. same here, it WILL do something having more wire, its the same principle.

 

my experience includes more than soapboxing on the web. working on many different types of vehicles over 18 years of tinkering. GM is funky, but they are not alone. they always use wire thats too small and too long like they want their cars to break as soon as the warranty is up. but battery wires should be replaced anyway after 60-100k miles just for good measure so then I just upgrade them with custom built. I was looking at a pontiac aztec that this gut I know is having switches and various electrical components randomly break and I could fix it from the root in like 1 hour If I changed out a couple wires under the hood. Its a talent I have. He will give me a couple of his expensive cigars and thats all I ask.

[Ryan from Ohio]

you should get into debate. seriously you are good.

 

but seriously if you want to help with people understanding things and if you are in to spending countless hours on the web for no personal gain, might as well do it effectively because someone browsing isnt going to want to spend time skimming through pages of this type of bullshit.

 

Well thank you for the compliment, I think.

 

Im trying to help the OP and anyone else questioning capacitors. Its very clear cut and obvious you dont understand the way a capacitor works and have no desire to really know. Thats proven.

 

So basically what you have in this entire thread are some opinions (which are fine and dandy), some facts and some misinformation/myths- thats not good. I have stepped forward with relevant info to counteract the myths/misinformation. The myths and misinformation continues on. Thats where the thread got ruined. Now here we are talking about where the thread derailed... lol...

 

It isnt just in this thread either. This very same thing keeps repeating itself in others. Im not trying to pick on you, but simple fact is theres many times when your passing out misinformation or bogus theories. That in turn may sway people into a negative situation. Ive seen some posts that have been good to, not all are bad- them I obviously dindt say anything to you about it. But the ones where we have clashed, Ive usually gave you enough information where you could check it out yourself yet you fail to every time.

[Garrett Powered]

so I am still not clear on why the stock charge wire is needed. I am very clear as to why I need my cap and everything, and know why it stays charged all the time. I still need you to explain why my cap seems to be always charged and only loses its charge when I disconnect it.

 

but why you are saying that even if you wrapped several hundred feet around the car of charge wire and then the battery would see the same voltage and alt would have the same performance because the power takes the path of least resistance? just by having another charge wire that is a bigger gauge and shorter?

 

I think we need the mythbusters in on this. otherwise I still dont agree that the factory charge wire is needed for anything. especially if the one you just installed is superior.

 

please explain in full detail why I should believe you on these specific two topics. I am not joking and not saying I am right. I just think a capacitor helps not only diagnose problems, but also gather power to where it can be quickly utilized. If I am wrong I invite you to explain why.

[GP1138]

Why is it every single serious car audio thread turns into a flamewar between you two?

[Garrett Powered]

so I am still not clear on why the stock charge wire is needed. I am very clear as to why I need my cap and everything, and know why it stays charged all the time. I still need you to explain why my cap seems to be always charged and only loses its charge when I disconnect it.

 

but why you are saying that even if you wrapped several hundred feet around the car of charge wire and then the battery would see the same voltage and alt would have the same performance because the power takes the path of least resistance? just by having another charge wire that is a bigger gauge and shorter?

 

I think we need the mythbusters in on this. otherwise I still dont agree that the factory charge wire is needed for anything. especially if the one you just installed is superior.

 

please explain in full detail why I should believe you on these specific two topics. I am not joking and not saying I am right. I just think a capacitor helps not only diagnose problems, but also gather power to where it can be quickly utilized. If I am wrong I invite you to explain why.

 

this post was serious. if anyone can help with this on topic discussion it would be appreciated.

[Ryan from Ohio]

so I am still not clear on why the stock charge wire is needed. I am very clear as to why I need my cap and everything, and know why it stays charged all the time. I still need you to explain why my cap seems to be always charged and only loses its charge when I disconnect it.

 

but why you are saying that even if you wrapped several hundred feet around the car of charge wire and then the battery would see the same voltage and alt would have the same performance because the power takes the path of least resistance? just by having another charge wire that is a bigger gauge and shorter?

 

I think we need the mythbusters in on this. otherwise I still dont agree that the factory charge wire is needed for anything. especially if the one you just installed is superior.

 

please explain in full detail why I should believe you on these specific two topics. I am not joking and not saying I am right. I just think a capacitor helps not only diagnose problems, but also gather power to where it can be quickly utilized. If I am wrong I invite you to explain why.

 

1)I am still not clear on why the stock charge wire is needed.

 

Its not so much that its needed, it more so there is NO reason to remove it. That usually means cutting it off. Since the current will take the path of lease resistance (the added large ga wire), that wire wont see any use. People get into trouble all the time when they start hacking up factory wiring. I NEVER cut factory wiring unless its a MUST. Just picture hacking up the factory wiring then trying to sell the car. People dont want a car with hacked up wires, period.

 

2)I still need you to explain why my cap seems to be always charged and only loses its charge when I disconnect it.

 

When the capacitor is wired into your system it will store AND release energy as demanded by the item down stream from it. Thats what they do (basic electronics). It stays charged because when charge is drawn from it, it recharges. I know I already posted the charge rates earlier.

 

Your capacitor should NOT loose charge when its fully disconnected from the system. If it does it is faulty. Never play with capacitors even when out of a system. They still store energy and if you do short one out they WILL explode like a grenade.

 

3)but why you are saying that even if you wrapped several hundred feet around the car of charge wire and then the battery would see the same voltage and alt would have the same performance because the power takes the path of least resistance? just by having another charge wire that is a bigger gauge and shorter?

 

Yup thats it in a nutshell. Electric takes the path of least resistance. It will flow through a piece of 12' long 4 Ga before it will flow down a piece of 5,000' 22 Ga wire. Thats electronics 101, heck thats high school science really.

 

3)I think we need the mythbusters in on this. otherwise I still dont agree that the factory charge wire is needed for anything. especially if the one you just installed is superior.

 

See #1. Its not so much thats its needed, it more of a "What if" or "Later on down the road" situation.

 

4)please explain in full detail why I should believe you on these specific two topics.

 

Because these are simple BASIC electrical principles. When you disagree with these simple principles you void out anything you may have to say. After all how can someone take you serious when you cant/dont even know the absolute basics?

 

You have given some good advice. You have also given some terrible advice. Never said your terribly bad... But you do seem to think your 100% right when clearly the basics are not even being observed. Then you pat yourself on the back. Thats irritating.

 

The other irritating thing is theres always people that will take the bad advice. Ive been doing the online message boards for a long time now. Ive helped out many people... I hate to see these people come to the forums with a problem that could of been avoided if they wouldnt of got BAD ADVICE.

 

So its not that I hate you or Im out to get you. I just want you to be better educated on the advice your giving out. It always nice to find people that want to help out. But its no good when these people give out bad advice. Hope you understand.

[GPX]

there is nothing bandaid about it, its just one more way to improve on any good system. it wont help you keep up the voltage where you need it. all it does is provide a steady draw from the alt. and gather power.

Thanks you. I thought it was interesting that this study seemed to be studying the voltage at the battery, but came to the conclusion that the cap didn't do anything. I think the study show there is good reason for the cap. I know that most electronic devices like clean steady power. The caps are there so the amps always have the power they need, right? If you don't want you're lights to dim, put caps in front of them!

[Ryan from Ohio]

Right right right...

 

But if that cap isnt fully recharged and is asked to supply current again then where does that come from?

 

Remember that it will discharge in 1 time constant and it takes 5 to recharge it...

 

So when it doesnt have the current where does it come from? The alternator for a start... Then if it still need more than the alternator can provide (voltage sags below 12.6V) then it comes off the battery...

 

This is truly simple electronics people. There is no genie in the cap. There is no magical fix. This is basic fundamentals. Try reading up on it and stop coming up with wild and invalid ideas.

 

The voltage at the battery will be the same after the cap. If its not you have a serious problem...

 

http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/capacit.htm

[Ryan from Ohio]

Why is it every single serious car audio thread turns into a flamewar between you two?

 

If you all would like I can never return here again, no biggie to me.

 

Its simple really, I dont like to see bad information passed on. I dont like to see people who are here in need of help being told to do stuff the "wrong" way, the improper way or the foolish way. I dont like it when I have to deal with people who are a bit pissy and looking for answers because they did what some "expert" told them to do and it didnt work... Then they question people who truly are in the know, and sometimes continue to do silly things...

[GPX]

Why is it every single serious car audio thread turns into a flamewar between you two?

Because one person here knows what he's talking about and the other has no actual knowledge, but some "real-world experience" which they have drawn some not-necessarily-correct conclusions from.

[Garrett Powered]

Why is it every single serious car audio thread turns into a flamewar between you two?

Because one person here knows what he's talking about and the other has no actual knowledge, but some "real-world experience" which they have drawn some not-necessarily-correct conclusions from.

 

 

 

 

http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/4/152842.html

 

talks about exploding caps

 

 

Right right right...

 

But if that cap isnt fully recharged and is asked to supply current again then where does that come from?

 

Remember that it will discharge in 1 time constant and it takes 5 to recharge it...

 

So when it doesnt have the current where does it come from? The alternator for a start... Then if it still need more than the alternator can provide (voltage sags below 12.6V) then it comes off the battery...

 

This is truly simple electronics people. There is no genie in the cap. There is no magical fix. This is basic fundamentals. Try reading up on it and stop coming up with wild and invalid ideas.

 

The voltage at the battery will be the same after the cap. If its not you have a serious problem...

 

http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/capacit.htm

 

ok I checked out your link, and according to the graph the thing charges quickly at first and tapers off like on the curved graphs, meaning it charges the most in the first instant then tapers off until fully charged. that is expected just like a battery, it will pull a lot of current when you first charge it and then taper off with a trickle. whats your point???? my battery stays charged and so my cap surely has a full charge. I have a healthy charging system.

 

the cap is pulling power from the alt (if the car is off then the battery) in the same instant it is delivering it to the amp so why are you thinking it is discharged at some point? it is not discharged unless you disconnect it. and it is not going to blow up unless you short it out in less than 2 minutes because thats all the time it takes to lose all its potency. and you would still have to bypass the protection circuitry.

 

If they blow up all the time, then there must be you tube vids of rednecks making honda grenades out of lightning caps. show me one, that would be entertainment!

[Ryan from Ohio]

If your dumb enough to think a cap looses its power when unhooked... Unhook yours for a day. Setup a vid camera and go short the terminals. Make sure to leave it in your will that the video is to go onto youtube.com Because you would be the only person dumb enough to try this...

[GPX]

it is not discharged unless you disconnect it. and it is not going to blow up unless you short it out in less than 2 minutes because thats all the time it takes to lose all its potency.

I don't think caps dissipate that fast, and in fact I KNOW that very large caps are stored with a shorting strap because they will pull in static electricity and charge themselves to the point of being dangerous.

[Garrett Powered]

if you guys had any real life experience with CAR STEREO caps you would know that they discharge themselves with the built in circuitry they come equipped with. they start beeping almost immediately and the display flashes and in under 2 minutes they are discharged. I know because I have experience with them and when I first heard the alarm it was annoying as hell until I realized what it was. walmart is not going to sell explosive stereo parts and get a bunch of lawsuits, believe me.

 

ryan face it you cant win. go read that thread I posted and see what the experts are saying. its just not going to happen. they are talking about car stereo caps, like I have, and I even shorted mine out before and all it did was start beeping. I may be dumb enough to try it but I am still alive because of the protection circuitry.

[Garrett Powered]

actually they were saying they would explode, I guess I was wrong, I mostly skimmed over that and looked at the part about how they might pop the top off and spray everywhere or pop like a cig lighter, but then I re read it and they were talking about full or over charged ones exploding as well.

 

 

damn, I guess thats the reason they do have that circuitry, however mine never blew up when I shorted it. it sparked pretty good though.

 

 

you probably have about as much chance exploding a car battery but hopefully that never happens to any of us.

 

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=3&url=http%3A%2F%2Fanswers.yahoo.com%2Fquestion%2Findex%3Fqid%3D20070606062225AAyRBxj&ei=eNiWSPn2HI-EsQPX3vilCg&usg=AFQjCNEFIzyKZBBECC9m7nodntjC6dsveg&sig2=I10nnVsOgH0GZDzyQKN6iw

 

more search results, but I cant find a vid of one exploding.  I'll keep looking.

 

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1046262/charging_discharging_capacitors_electronics_caution/

 

this one will show you what will happen!

 

 

[carkhz316]

If anyone wants to get hurt on a smaller scale, take a capacitor out of a distributer or lawnmower engine with points and breaker system, hook up the wire end to a spark plug wire and run it for a few seconds. Then touch both the capacitor and the wire, or touch the wire end to the body of the capacitor and watch the spark. It's kinda cool really.

[Ryan from Ohio]

if you guys had any real life experience with CAR STEREO caps you would know that they discharge themselves with the built in circuitry they come equipped with. they start beeping almost immediately and the display flashes and in under 2 minutes they are discharged. I know because I have experience with them and when I first heard the alarm it was annoying as hell until I realized what it was. walmart is not going to sell explosive stereo parts and get a bunch of lawsuits, believe me.

 

ryan face it you cant win. go read that thread I posted and see what the experts are saying. its just not going to happen. they are talking about car stereo caps, like I have, and I even shorted mine out before and all it did was start beeping. I may be dumb enough to try it but I am still alive because of the protection circuitry.

 

Come to Ohio and I just might be able to teach you a few things. Experts? Good for them I dont toot my own horn but Im an expert in my own right. If anyone here cares to contest my experience in Car Audio please go ahead. I may not know the wiring code for every car or all the latest and greatest stuff out, but the basics and theory never changes. Furthermore for those holier than thou, please come to my board and school me there. You will quickly see even the newer crowd at my board will show you up let alone the veterans.

 

You obviously have a slight form of mental retardation. I cant believe you would even be foolish enough to try and short a cap out.

 

If any moderators are reading this I highly suggest you edit his post. Despite what may or may not be on current cheap capacitors the old ones for sure are raw and will blow the F up if some retard tries to short one out... Small capacitors do some damage when they blow, I surely would hate to see what a full Farad would do. Someone could easily loose a hand...