"lightning" "cap" "capacitor" or WHATEVER lol

[EviLette]

I know those are various terms to describe a dealiemabobber that you put on somewhere in a car stereo to help keep from dimming lights out.

 

How would you go about doing this? Where does it go? (by the amp, or under the hood, etc..) are they expensive? hard to install?

 

Should I just buy a bigger alternator and replace all of the power lines?

[Pontiac6KSTEAWD]

For a stereo system, you want it within 12 inchs of your amp. This will prevent power degradation from length of cable. Easy to install, put the mouting strap on the side of the sub box (usually safest), and mount the cap in the strap, than disconnect your battery, then you just cut your power wire going to the amp, peel off some of the plastic sheathing from the last bit of cable, then using a allen key, AND NOT TOUCHING ANY METAL, tightening the cables into the wire press thing, then reconnecting your battery, and your pretty much done. Can be done in abouit 30 minutes if your a artard.

[CSI_MuNkY]

I think my car is some sort of freak of automotive nature or something...

I'm only running an 800W amp, two 10" RF P2 Punch subs, and no capacitor, but I have never had the lights dim the least bit when the bass hits.

 

Jamie

[EviLette]

For a stereo system, you want it within 12 inchs of your amp. This will prevent power degradation from length of cable. Easy to install, put the mouting strap on the side of the sub box (usually safest), and mount the cap in the strap, than disconnect your battery, then you just cut your power wire going to the amp, peel off some of the plastic sheathing from the last bit of cable, then using a allen key, AND NOT TOUCHING ANY METAL, tightening the cables into the wire press thing, then reconnecting your battery, and your pretty much done. Can be done in abouit 30 minutes if your a artard.

 

Hope I can do it in under that amount of time. I don't envy the thought of having to have my alarm system reprogrammed..again.

[slick]

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a109/slick94prix/Random/captest.jpg

 

This is a real world test that was measured by Richard Clark on a Audio Precision unit to portray what happens with a typical capacitor install.

The main point for those who point out the obvious differences between the Red (cap installed) and yellow (cap not installed)…how much of a dB difference is .1-.4 volts in terms of music? And do you feel you are going to hear this within a car? On with the explaination:

 

Dark Blue curve---

For our first test we played the system with the engine off and no cap. The result was the purple trace at the bottom. We played the system as loud as we could get it that seemed to produce no audible distortion. This was track 30 of the IASCA disc. It starts off with fairly low level sounds for the first 34 seconds. In order to insure the electrical system was stable we did not start the measurement until we were 20 seconds into the song. This means that our 0 starting point is :20 on the CD counter.

The battery was able to maintain it's voltage just below 12.5 until the loud bass hits at 34 seconds (14 seconds into our chart) At this time it dropped to about 11.5 and had a few large variations due to the music. According to the computer calculations (third chart) the average voltage for this test was 11.7volts. This test was done as a baseline for the following tests.

 

Yellow curveâ€â€no cap

For this test the volume was left as it was for the baseline test. The engine was started. Notice that at low volume the alternator was able to maintain about 14 volts. When the loud music hit the voltage dropped to about 12.5 where it remained

except for a few short moments where it actually climbed back to over 13.5 volts. The computer averaged calculations for the average voltage during the 100 seconds of this test was 12.973 volts.

 

Red curveâ€â€cap added

This test was identical to the previous test except the cap (15 farad type) was added 6 inches from the amp with 4 gauge wireâ€â€no relays or fuses. The red curve seems to overlay the yellow except that the actual peaks don’t rise as fast or as high during the brief quiet moments. I feel this would be due to the alternator having to recharge the cap. The voltage on loud passages hovered around 12.5 volts. The computer averaged calculations for this test show the average voltage to be 12.878 volts. I see no meaningful differences with or without the cap. I certainly don’t see the voltage sitting solid at 14 volts. One note I might add is that this was a two thousand watt system driven right to clipping and the average voltage stayed above 12.8 with a stock 80 amp alternator. Under these conditions the battery would never discharge! The green and light blue curves were done just for kicks while we had the system set up. In both these tests we turned the volume up until the system was very distorted. This placed a severe load on the alternator and caused the voltage to dip as low as 12 volts. The curves seem to follow each other so closely that unless you have a good monitor it is doubtful you can tell there are two curves. The average voltage for these two curves were both 12.277 and 12.295 volts. If this volume were sustained for very long periods of time this battery would discharge.

 

 

 

Long story short, a capacitor is a bandaid for a weak electrical system.

[Addicted2bass]

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a109/slick94prix/Random/captest.jpg

Long story short, a capacitor is a bandaid for a weak electrical system.

 

Quoted for truth!! Although i just sold to capacitors to a guy today at work lol! Oh and if you do go the cap route make sure you charge it before turning the car on. There should be resistors with a light that come with the cap. You gotta put the resistor inline on the cap and let it charge. There should be instructions on how to do it with the cap.

[Pontiac6KSTEAWD]

And when fully charged, dont touch any metal with its top. Supposed to be enuf energy in one of those to blow a hole thru a steer car door. I havent seen it, but I head that from another car audio guy.

[Garrett Powered]

if you have a weak charging system there is no bandaid that will help even the slightest.

 

the only way a cap will help is if you have a good charge wire all the way from the amp to the alt. all one size. 4 gauge or bigger.

 

and no study charting the average voltage is going to have any meaning to help someone understand the usefullness of a cap! the nature of a cap is to provide instantaneous power and working together with a charging/deep cycle storage power system.

 

the main benefit of a cap is to provide a power gathering point where multiple grounds can be triangulated and dispersed within 10-12 inches of where they are needed. this way big wire is needed only up to the cap and then you can just use 8 gauge to your small amps and 4 to the sub amps.

[Garrett Powered]

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a109/slick94prix/Random/captest.jpg

Long story short, a capacitor is a bandaid for a weak electrical system.

 

Quoted for truth!! Although i just sold to capacitors to a guy today at work lol! Oh and if you do go the cap route make sure you charge it before turning the car on. There should be resistors with a light that come with the cap. You gotta put the resistor inline on the cap and let it charge. There should be instructions on how to do it with the cap.

 

I never use those things. havent fried anything yet either. just hook up the power wire first then after the spark hook up the amp. if you are worried you can use it though.

[xtremerevolution]

I'll throw in my opinion here. I picked up a rockford fosgate 1 farad cap for somewhere around $30 and installed it in my regal when I put the new system in, and at max bass my lights still dim a slight barely noticeable bit, though not as bad. Back when I had the 2 MTX 5500's in the trunk, you would notice a huge dim in the lights, which was very well alleviated through the installation of a 2 farad cap.

 

I know perfectly well its just a bandaid, but for the kind of purpose it serves my car, a $30 cap is a lot cheaper than a yellowtop optima battery, a more powerful alternator, and new power wiring from the alternator to the battery.

[Garrett Powered]

there is nothing bandaid about it, its just one more way to improve on any good system. it wont help you keep up the voltage where you need it. all it does is provide a steady draw from the alt. and gather power.

[EviLette]

I'll throw in my opinion here. I picked up a rockford fosgate 1 farad cap for somewhere around $30 and installed it in my regal when I put the new system in, and at max bass my lights still dim a slight barely noticeable bit, though not as bad. Back when I had the 2 MTX 5500's in the trunk, you would notice a huge dim in the lights, which was very well alleviated through the installation of a 2 farad cap.

 

I know perfectly well its just a bandaid, but for the kind of purpose it serves my car, a $30 cap is a lot cheaper than a yellowtop optima battery, a more powerful alternator, and new power wiring from the alternator to the battery.

 

Those speakers are exactly what I'm runing, MTX thunder 5500s.. and I LOVE them, tyvm.

 

I know I have a weak electrical system... I always have. I bought the one year warranty alternator when my last one fried itself, so it is the smaller voltage alternator. My headlights dim a significant amount listening to a cd at night, but its not so bad really with the radio on. HOWEVER, my headlights also dim when I step on my brakes, which tells you right there I do have a weak electrical system.

 

I don't know about all the wiring under the hood and whatnot, but I know its a pretty large gauge wire going back through to the amp, and the lines from the amp to the subs. I had everything professionally installed at a shop that's been in business here in Wichita for over 20 years now, which has a very good reputation, so I trust that everything was installed correctly. The issue I'm running into now is mostly due to the lack of a stronger electrical system.

 

I really didn't start this thread for a comparisin, it was baisically just, "Hey, my headlights dim when the bass hits. What should I do?" I've had lots of people tell me to install a cap., so I figured I might check into that.. but with my smaller alternator, that could be the biggest problem.

 

I'll probably start by changing out all the power lines under the hood, they are factory and 16+ years old now... help carry more current from the battery/alternator, etc, and that should help with it in addition to installing a larger alternator. After everything you said about dont touch the capacitor.. and me being kind of a klutz.. yeah, I think I'll avoid that... it will be a last resort.

 

Thanks for the input!

 

and on that note...

 

[xtremerevolution]

That's a good way of going about it.

 

And yeah those MTX 5500's do pound a lot of bass, and they can definitely take more than their recommended wattage. The only reason I got rid of them was because I didn't have the slightest bit of trunk space with them installed and they weighed 92 pounds with the box.

 

 

A cap helped alleviate the problems I had, so I would suggest you try it and see how it works. Just don't pay retail for one. You can definitely get a 4 Farad cap online for $80.

[Pontiac6KSTEAWD]

Another thing I would suggest, a overdrive pulley for your alternator.. Will keep it in its peak performance area, even at idle.

[xtremerevolution]

Another thing I would suggest, a overdrive pulley for your alternator.. Will keep it in its peak performance area, even at idle.

 

Would that reduce the life of the alternator though?

[Pontiac6KSTEAWD]

I actually think it might increase it. When at low RPM's the alternator brushs are doing everything they can to provide the current, the car requires. If the Alternator windings are spinning faster, which means the brushes arent haveing to work their buts off to produce the same current. The only thing I see going out more is the alternator.

[EviLette]

Another thing I would suggest, a overdrive pulley for your alternator.. Will keep it in its peak performance area, even at idle.

 

That is an area I know nothing about. >.>

[MonteCarloDude]

Another thing I would suggest, a overdrive pulley for your alternator.. Will keep it in its peak performance area, even at idle.

 

That is an area I know nothing about. >.>

http://mrzperformance.vstore.ca/product_info.php/cPath/23_24_45/products_id/97?osCsid=36fd5858d887ba44d70fbe463f3f93a9

[Addicted2bass]

HOWEVER, my headlights also dim when I step on my brakes, which tells you right there I do have a weak electrical system.

 

Both of my GPs have done this. Whether of not i have the system on. My TGP does it pretty bad sometimes and it has a less than year old Bosh Platinum Plus lifetime replacement battery and a lifetime warranty new alternator so the charging system should be more then up to par. I think its just a quirk of the cars.

[Garrett Powered]

you gotta just start building wires. get some gardner/bender wire crimpers from the hardware store and go to town. just start replacing wires one by one until they are all upgraded. harbor freight has a 5 pack of all shrink wrap sizes up to 1 inch for cheap. do the big 5, its not that hard at all. I did it and my electrical system screams. it used to slowly eat up everything and something would break every other day it seemed. now it is at 13.3 on up to almost 15 volts! never drops down to 12.5 hardly with the car off even. now thats where you can get the most out of your alt. it hates operating at lower voltages, gets all hot and pissed off.

 

the cap is great to have especially if it has a digital gauge. every time you replace another wire you can see an improvement. one of the most rewarding feelings is seeing the numbers improve every time you build another wire. sometimes you will get better at building them and replace your own because they will fail and you will make like 50 trips to the parts store. I have done so many cars and seen so many people just ignore their wires and it disgusts me. I fix their cars for free because its so easy and fun for me. I use tackle boxes full of parts. I have seen some really bad cars and people neglect that shit more than anything else but its one of the cheapest/ easiest ways to improve your car and there is no excuse!

[EviLette]

haha my excuse is i dont do wiring.

 

I am very good at electrocuting myself.

 

And umm.. yeah right now I'm too tired to think about wiring. I'm ass-deep in the current project and still don't have the finish line in sight. LOL

[Pontiac6KSTEAWD]

Thanks for that link MonteCarloDude, been looking for a decently priced one for awhile now.

 

Wonder if this will work...

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Overdrive-Six-Groove-Pulley-Ford-Chevy-GM-Alternators_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33573QQihZ013QQitemZ230242651012QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

 

Or this one..

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Overdrive-Pulley-powdercoated-GR8-for-high-amp-alt_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247QQcategoryZ33573QQihZ018QQitemZ280070964773QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V

[Garrett Powered]

Thanks for that link MonteCarloDude, been looking for a decently priced one for awhile now.

 

Wonder if this will work...

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Overdrive-Six-Groove-Pulley-Ford-Chevy-GM-Alternators_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33573QQihZ013QQitemZ230242651012QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

 

Or this one..

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Overdrive-Pulley-powdercoated-GR8-for-high-amp-alt_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247QQcategoryZ33573QQihZ018QQitemZ280070964773QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V

 

 

it will work. as a bandaid fix.

 

trust me I had a discount alt shop boy slap one on for me way back sometime in the 90s. all it did was blow a regulater. thats like pumping adrenaline in a heart thats got clogged arteries.

 

a capacitor is not a bandaid , its more like vitamins. if you are relating to health terms.

[93CutlassSupreme]

 

 

 

a capacitor is not a bandaid , its more like vitamins. if you are relating to health terms.

 

[EviLette]

Yeah, I figured that much. I knew the capacitor couldn't do anything but help regulate... definitely doesn't do much to reduce drain on the system.

 

Thats something else for me to consider. I think I'm gonna be dealing with motor mounts this weekend though.