Front End Noise/Vibration - Can't Figure Out

[jasonnewyork]

First, I would like to introduce myself as I'm new to the forum. I just purchased a 1998 Lumina with 103,000 miles on it from the original owner.

 

This past Friday, I went to my local tire center and had 4 news tires installed along with an alignment. I picked up the car Saturday morning and immediately notice a new vibration coming from the floor starting at 35MPH and increased as I go faster. I went right back to the shop where they test drove the car and agreed something was wrong. The tech rotated the tires front to back and the same. He then replaced the 2 front tires with new ones off the rack, mounted and balanced them and tested - vibration still there. The manager told me I had to come back Monday (they are closed Sunday) as they were too busy and was raining so he couldn't safely test the car. I asked him what he planned to do and told me the driver's side tie rod was loose so he would start there. I was t'd off and asked him why they did an alignment if the front end was loose. He answered the tech screwed up and would realign after fixing the car.

 

On Sunday, I did some research and found some solutions, thanks to this fine forum. I did verify the tire rod was loose and went ahead and replaced it. The vibration was still there so I replaced the drivers side wheel bearing and vibration still there. I called the shop this morning and they told me to bring it back. My fear is they are just going to start replacing random parts until the problem goes away - at my expense. I want to blame them for messing up the car but I don't see how they could have caused this. There is a possibility that something failed around the same time. I can't figure it out.

 

Description of the Vibration:

Vibration starts at 35MPH and the frequency increases along with speed. The steering wheel does not shake at all. You can hear a thumping/pulsating sound from the front driver's side. I also feel this on the floor board. I had my wife drive the car and did not feel or hear anything from the back seat. I do feel and hear it in the front passenger seat but not as strong as the driver's side.

 

This is what we did to try and resolve vibration:

1. Tires rotated front to back

2. New tires installed on front

3. New driver's side tie rod

4. New driver's side wheel bearing

 

I'm thinking maybe the half shaft is bad but I don't want to replace anymore parts that aren't necessary. Please let me know what you think I should do.

[ns87]

That definitely sounds like the tie-rod. I'm pretty sure you need an alignment after a tierod job though (I plan on doing this this spring for the same problem). Does it change depending on where the steering wheel is? On my car, if I turn the wheel slightly left, I get a whap whap whap sound.Turn right, it goes away. Where abouts in NY are you?

[BXX]

Sounds like a cv halfshaft has gone bad....

 

Tie rods, wheel bearings, and wheels will cause the steering wheel to shake...

[jasonnewyork]

notsoslimshady76 - I already repalced the bad tie rod end so the suspension has no free play. There is no noise when turning the wheel.

 

BlackBird21 - I think it might be the half shaft too. I replaced everything else so it's process of elimination. I just don't want to throw anymore moeny at the problem. I can't return the parts once they are installed.

 

I'm going to drop the car off at the tire center tomorrow and let them look at it. They were the last ones to touch the car before the problem so I'm curious what they will find. I just don't want to start chanigng parts only to find out it is a bad tire. I will keep you posted. Thanks for the advice.

 

[jasonnewyork]

Update - I dropped the car off at the tire center yesterday and they looked into the vibration problem. I asked them to replace the driver's side inner tie rod as the wheel still had some free play right to left. This obviously did not fix the vibration but the steering is much tighter. The manager checked the balance on all four tires and said it was spot on. He also said the tires and wheels were true and nothing was out of round. He also run the car on the lift to 80mph and no vibration at all. He thinks the Pep Boys wheel bearing I installed might be defective from the factory. I plan to swap it out again this weekend. If this doesn't fix it, maybe the half shaft is bad? I'm at a loss here and do not want to throw parts at the situtation until it's fixed. Any other ideas or parts I can check before replacing? Thanks for your input.

 

 

[meltboy1]

I'm goin with wheel bearing, sounds very similar to the problems I have been having with my Malibu lately.

[jasonnewyork]

meltboy1 - does your steering wheel shake at all? Mine doesn't shake one bit. All I feel is a pulsating vibration on the floor and I can hear it too. The faster I drive, the faster it pulsates.

 

 

[Brian P]

have him rotate the tires one more time. It seems like the bad tire (I'm thinking shifted belt. It happens with new tires sometimes) is in the back, since you mention the wheel doesn't shake. It's hard to tell sometimes where the problem is when sitting in the car. Might feel like it's coming from the front when it's in fact elsewhere.

 

Also, did they give you an alignment spec printout? How'd everything measure out before & after?

[meltboy1]

yes, I was getting both, the floorboard vibration and the wheel was shaking a little bit.

[jasonnewyork]

Glass Joe - Initially I thought it was the tire too since the vibration occurred right after getting 4 new tires. But, the shop rotated the tires front to back and vibration was still in the front. I had someone drive the car while I was in the back seat and was perfectly smooth and quiet. They did the alignment twice, and "forgot" to print out the results after I asked them . Do you think a bad alignment would cause a vibration?

 

One thing I noticed this morning is the vibration does not start until you drive at least a mile or two. I took it up to 45MPH within the first mile and no vibrations. Not too sure if this helps.

[Brian P]

usually a bad alignment doesn't. I'm just curious if something was way out and may give a clue as to the problem.

[jasonnewyork]

I'm starting to think its a tire too. The manager mentioned to me on Wednesday, second time they looked at the car, that one of the rear wheels was slightly bent. What's strange is the vibration only starts about a mile or two after the car has been sitting for a long time. It's hard to believe a metal part such as a wheel bearing or halfshaft would be effected by heat, especially that quickly. Also, the vibration is a very low frquency, kind of in sync with the tire rotation. If the wheel is spinning at 35 MPH, the halfshafts/bearings must be going 100MPH. I'm going to swap each of the rear wheels with my spare donut and see if the vibration still exists. Everything is pointing to a bad tire since I didn't have this problem before getting new tires. I wish I had the alignment results but I don't. I will keep you posted.

[Brian P]

Well if you're talking about hearing a sound per revolution of the tire, the halfshafts, wheel bearings are all spinning at the same revolution speed too. But I still think it's a tire. They replaced two but I think they missed the bad one. Sometimes a tire with a flat spot or shifted belt will be out of round visually with no weight on it. Like if they spin the tire on the balancer, and watch the tread surface to see if it moves up and down or side to side. In fact you can probably just lift the rear of your car and spin the tires by hand and look for this. You can also check the rim too. Here's a reference to what I'm trying to describe. Check this video:

 

http://s37.photobucket.com/albums/e75/rhedalert/?action=view&current=MOV00189.flv

 

(kill your sound. The jerks in the shop wouldn't lower their stereo)

[jasonnewyork]

Thanks Glass Joe - I finally found the problem. Yesterday, I swapped each wheel with my spare until the vibration went away. Sure enough, it was the passengers side front. I went back to the tire center and they replaced the tire. There is no more vibration but there is a slight pulsating sound at high speeds. The manager spun the rim on the balancing machine and we saw a slight buldge near the outer bead. I'm going to buy a new rim this week and have it mounted next weekend. This should solve the problem entirely. Lesson learned, always check the tires before changing suspension parts.

 

 

[Brian P]

Cool, glad it got solved!