Murt TTA/TGP Posted October 13, 2002 Report Share Posted October 13, 2002 I am going to try to install an Isuzu NPR intercooler on my TGP, my friend with a dodge shadow has an extra one and we are gonna attempt to get this installed. Does anybody know when or if Jeff M is making a new chip for the bigger sy/ty injectors?? That seems like the only feasable way to get alot more hp out of these cars, by adding fuel and a bigger turbo. GN/TTA stock injectors are also very cheap and plenty full--28 lb injectors, I have seen then go for about 35 dollars for 6. But then again it seems that this computer is whats holding everything back. I am also probably going to pull my cross over pipe and check it out, it probably has some leaks in it. We are also going to find out if the "diode" dodge over ride will work on these cars, so I can get some more boost out of it. Also, does anybody make any A-pillar gauge pods-- does the GTP pods work in the TGP? ~Murt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted October 13, 2002 Report Share Posted October 13, 2002 I am going to try to install an Isuzu NPR intercooler on my TGP, my friend with a dodge shadow has an extra one and we are gonna attempt to get this installed. Does anybody know when or if Jeff M is making a new chip for the bigger sy/ty injectors?? That seems like the only feasable way to get alot more hp out of these cars, by adding fuel and a bigger turbo. GN/TTA stock injectors are also very cheap and plenty full--28 lb injectors, I have seen then go for about 35 dollars for 6. But then again it seems that this computer is whats holding everything back. I am also probably going to pull my cross over pipe and check it out, it probably has some leaks in it. We are also going to find out if the "diode" dodge over ride will work on these cars, so I can get some more boost out of it. Also, does anybody make any A-pillar gauge pods-- does the GTP pods work in the TGP? ~Murt No, no and uh NO? Jeff is working on the newer chips, but hasn't released them yet. Likes to have things well tested! IF the crossover doesn't have heat sheilds on it then it has been fixed and doesn't need to be pulled. If it has heatshields then it DOES leak no questions asked. Many guys have recommended the GN stock injectors to me, since they are so plentiful. No on the pillar pods. The newer GTP ones will not work. The best you can do is use an add on pod, most have to be heated and molded a little to fit just right. I don't have any recommendations however. The NPR intercooler will be a good fit infront of the radiator. you will need to relocate the front fan of course. Actually, install a pull type fan in the back. This isn't hard. The outlets on the NPRIC will probably have to be relocated, where they are now it will hit the condenser. Ideally you can move them so that they exit allowing the pipes to wrap under the radiator and trim some openings in the lower valance, very similar to a GN setup. Then you will have room for the pipes where the old IC was. The only other problem i see are the a/c lines, but they might be able to be flexed one way or the other to get tubes past them. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted October 14, 2002 Report Share Posted October 14, 2002 my brother is using the BIG Isuzu NPR intercooler on his '87 Shelby Lancer. the stock turbo dodge intercooler looks ALOT like the TGP intercooler. it's almost like ASC copied the turbo dodge radiator/intercooler setup. we had looked at my car (a good look at things not actual test fitting) to see if the BIG NPR would fit, and it looked like it would be real tough getting it to fit in there, ecspecially if you keep A/C. the main problem was that both the inlet & outlet are on top. so it looked like you'd have to mount the intercooler higher than the radiator, which would then cause hood clearance issues. the thing did wonders for his Shelby tho, the results were VERY impressive. btw, he took his A/C out, and has the NPR mounted in front of his radiator. joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted October 14, 2002 Report Share Posted October 14, 2002 my brother is using the BIG Isuzu NPR intercooler on his '87 Shelby Lancer. the stock turbo dodge intercooler looks ALOT like the TGP intercooler. it's almost like ASC copied the turbo dodge radiator/intercooler setup. we had looked at my car (a good look at things not actual test fitting) to see if the BIG NPR would fit, and it looked like it would be real tough getting it to fit in there, ecspecially if you keep A/C. the main problem was that both the inlet & outlet are on top. so it looked like you'd have to mount the intercooler higher than the radiator, which would then cause hood clearance issues. the thing did wonders for his Shelby tho, the results were VERY impressive. btw, he took his A/C out, and has the NPR mounted in front of his radiator. joshua Turn it upside down. I've had a NPR (with the IC in it of course) nearby when I did my last set of measurements, and you could probably get it to fit without relocating the outlets, if the outlets face forward, you could have pipes loop around and under the core support. Based on my measurements, its a very good fit. you may have to modify the center core support and incorporate it into the NPRIC, which would make for a nice mounting of the IC. However, I want to have the outlets relocated for a better fit, much like a precision IC on a GN. I've never thought about the Precision unit or other GN frontmounts however, but I don't think they would fit. They are also a bit more expensive than the NPR unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted October 15, 2002 Report Share Posted October 15, 2002 wow i never even thought of that! my brother is going to have his NPR IC out pretty soon here and i'll try to get him to help me test fit it in my CS. i'm helping him do a turbo conversion to his Omni GLH right now, and the NPR is going from his Shelby into his Omni, along with a 2.5 turbo engine from a minivan. Chris, if i were to use a front mount NPR, would my regular n/a radiator suffice? i've heard the radiator from a DOHC car is better? i wouldn't mind removing my a/c if that helps (it doesn't work with my '90 GP wiring harness anyway). i have a TGP radiator but it needs to be recored before i can use it. i also have the TGP IC, so whichever would work i guess, but i'd much rather save my money and keep my radiator, while using the much better NPR. then maybe i could sell my TGP IC/RAD combo. hmmm joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted October 15, 2002 Report Share Posted October 15, 2002 Your NA Radiator may provide adequate cooling but I doubt it. The DOHC rad is a two core rad vs the one core you have. If nothing else, i would try to use the DOHC rad, it will cost about as much as having the TGP recored. However, (this is my dilema right now) you could have the TGP recored with a full width core that isn't high efficiency. Meaning it would A: be less expensive than the high efficieny core B: Have better airflow through the fins since the fins won't be packed so closely together C: Cover the full width of a normal radiator D: Be 3 core. So you will get better air flow through the IC, Condenser and Rad, and still have incredible cooling power. The only tradeoff is weight. The TGP radiator is HEAVY, a simialr capacity DOHC radiator is very light by comparison. I've never weighed the DOHC, but IIRC the TGP one pushes 40lbs. I haven't decided on a full width two row (or custom 3 row ) aluminum one, or the TGP style one. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted October 15, 2002 Report Share Posted October 15, 2002 just thought i'd add some pics: Isuzu NPR intercooler: http://groups.msn.com/theCSproject/thecsproject.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=26 Isuzu NPR with radiator & plumbing for '87 Shelby Lancer: http://groups.msn.com/theCSproject/thecsproject.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=27 the plumbing is compression bent for now, but i think my brother is looking into mandrel bent stuff from JCWhitney when it goes into the GLH. joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted October 15, 2002 Report Share Posted October 15, 2002 i can get a radiator from a DOHC car NO problem. there is a junkyard near me that sells me stuff for dirt cheap. (the sold me my DSM BOV for $5). i remember looking at a radiator from a '91 CS DOHC the last time i was there, so i KNOW they have one. joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted October 15, 2002 Report Share Posted October 15, 2002 The only other thing I was thinking about is the hood latch. I can't remember my measurements exactly, but I think it came pretty close to the latch. You may be able to use the short NPR IC, its still pretty good size, and is a nice fit width wise. However, the outlets are on the end so it may be easier to work with for routing and not hit the hood latch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1trucavalier Posted October 15, 2002 Report Share Posted October 15, 2002 my entire a/c system is removed and I can tell you there is a LOOOOT of room in the the nose of that gp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted October 22, 2002 Report Share Posted October 22, 2002 Chris, i have come to the conclusion that there is NO WAY the BIG NPR intercooler will fit in my CS. maybe the GP is different. it wouldn't fit right side up because of hood clearance of course. turning it upside down would result in the inlet/outlet being way too low and it would hit parking curbs etc (although my car is lowered and will be going even lower soon). i would also have to cut part of the front bumper out and lower air dam piece out which would only minorly help with ground clearance. the IC pipes would still have some pretty sharp bends not to mention the pipes would be fairly long. the center radiator support was also an issue, but if i removed the A/C then there might be enough room without modifying it since the NPR is only 2" thick. my conclusion? an 8x30x2 (30" might be too long) intercooler with tubes that flow downward and BOTH inlet/outlet on the drivers side. use the TGP radiator. use the 'window' where the stock TGP IC was so you can route the IC pipes thru here. unfortunately the turbo outlet points to the passenger side of the car, whereas my suggested IC inlet would point to the drivers side. i'm not going to be using a TGP T-25 so it might be different for me (maybe a Turbo T-bird T-3 which i'm researching) any ideas or input anyone? if i used a stock n/a radiator or DOHC radiator i don't see how i could possibly use ANY intercooler. the pipes would have to pass thru on the bottom and that just wouldn't work on my car since it is lowered. joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1trucavalier Posted October 22, 2002 Report Share Posted October 22, 2002 that cooler must be huge! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted October 22, 2002 Report Share Posted October 22, 2002 yeah it's big! on my brothers Shelby the NPR IC practically dwarfs his radiator! i posted a couple of pics of it in an above post of mine - in the pic there is a mt. dew can next to it so you can see how big this thing is. joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted October 22, 2002 Report Share Posted October 22, 2002 here is a company that makes custom intercoolers. they are a turbo dodge vendor. i noticed that the TGP IC is almost exactly the same as the turbo dodge IC's. the only difference was the end tanks and the TGP internal tube fins weren't as densely packed together as the dodge IC. the core is exactly the same dimensions. joshua http://www.relentlessracing.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timg Posted October 24, 2002 Report Share Posted October 24, 2002 It is possible to run pipes( on the MC's anyway) through the fenderwell and then down and around to where an intercooler would sit. This would require removing the battery and the vacuum ball. If you'd like to see what I'm talking about, gimme a call, 307-680-0914 BTW- there's a dyno day in Ft Collins this saturday at PFI Speed. $20 for a run. I'll be there and Shane(redZ) should be also if you're interested. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff M Posted October 24, 2002 Report Share Posted October 24, 2002 Always more ideas to play with, how about a simpler approach swapping directly the double capacity Spearco Core number 2-210 (good for 450 hp) that is the same height, .9" smaller width (tiny bit smaller is fine, and fits better!) BUT is 6 inches deep verses the 3.5 for ours (i.e. MORE COOLING media), that means you only need to clear back an additional 2.5 inches with the 6 inch thickness now, from my measuring stick, it would clear with little effort, of course custom end tanks to complete but that would be with any custom intercooler and is not an uncommon requirement. Old Racers Secret that I have passed on enough now that it is too old to keep that way, and I have a degree in refrigeration (at least) so just do it, remove the intercooler, and if you are good, will be able to leave the front cooling fan on while the work is completed. Now take a pair of very small but long needle nose pliers, insert them on an angle down, or up into the open area of the air conditioning condenser fins, twist a small amount at a time and pull them/the fins out, continue this process carefully so as to not bend the coils, they can flex and are aluminum but it looks better if they are not all bent when you are done. I have done this a few times and the last 2 without taking out the front cooling fan, just use that long needle nose to reach all the way to the front to rotate and loosen free the fins and pull them out. Clean all the fins out of the coil where the intercooler resides/where the intercooler was blocked of free air flow from those many tiny fins. When done there will be a much great amount of air flowing over the intercooler, and sometime when I can find the test results I wrote down, I have an air flow meter and read the before and after flow numbers, but I recall they more than doubled and was very pleased, so just do it!! :gone2far: That's it, just another tid-bid of what goes on behind the scenes here in research, testing and development. Jeff M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted October 24, 2002 Report Share Posted October 24, 2002 great idea. i'm actually going to ditch my A/C altogether, since my '90 GP wiring harness isn't compatible with my '91 A/C. :? A/C isn't a requirement anyway up here in Laramie (7200ft). the weather here only goes above 80' 3 months out of the year anyway (and hardly ever above 90') joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1trucavalier Posted October 25, 2002 Report Share Posted October 25, 2002 if you are going to ditch your a/c you can use a idler pully or tensioner pulley from a 2.2L cavalier and I have to get your the bolt size I used and length of belt. Also there is no listing for a gp with out a/c so what i did was tell them it was for a 3.1L beretta without a/c. The belt also is to small (why?) I don't know you are going to need a belt that its 2 sizes larger than what is listed and I'll post the bolt size on monday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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