Moving battery to back, thanks everyone, especially gp1138-think problem solved

[dohc v6]

In the morning 80% of the time it will start right up. But once I start going where I need to go during the day, if I stop more than 10 min it has a problem starting. If I go to get gas in my car, I turn the car off, pump the gas and it will start right up EVERYTIME. I will try that on off thing and see if that helps. The wierd thing was, when I finished up diagnosing this the other day, I tested it all day and it worked, everytime I tried to start it it would start. Then I got in my car yesterday, started right up, no hesitation, nothing, it was perfect. then I go to lunch and 5-6 seconds of cranking. I did try my dads expedition battery, which is 200 more cold cranking amps and nothing. So the battery size is not the problem, its something else.

[Dark Ride]

could your starter be on its way out? The one starter I had go out, would start when cold, but wouldn't start the car when it was warm, it would crank, but it wasn't enough. I dont mean to point out the obvious, but with the size of wire you ran, I doubt it has anything to do with your battery relocation.

[dohc v6]

Its a brand new starter. Its been doing this for 2 moths now, dont think a starter would be bad or going bad for that long. Also the whole thing is, when I move the battery to the front it start everytime. i did try the prim pump 6 times and nothing. Aldo one more problem now I have a damn whine in my pass front speaker, its a annoying wine, I have no idea about that, but I can take care of that later.

[Garrett Powered]

alright it took me like 2 days to read this far just slapping my forehead.

 

do not attempt to ground a trunk battery to the block.

 

just ground it like you have it on the strut tower. that is fine.

 

what your problem is: you need a charge wire from the alt. to the positive batt terminal.

 

thats it. I recommend 0 awg car audio wire. like Kicker hyperflex. welding wire will work but is thinner..

 

remember to take off the factory charge wire and just shrink wrap it. just get your car on a lift and wireloom the whole wire and run it under the car attaching it every 6 inches or so with loop fasteners. you will get power for days, months, years.

 

you do need an excellent ground or two for the block/chassis.

 

seriously though, just go off the alt and straight down and back. Its a bitch, without a lift its like crawling up the cars ass and getting shit out like 6 hours later. but so worth it.

 

that capacitor up front is a brilliant idea and I am jealous I didnt come up with that. Im gonna have to steal that one. thats a totally bad ass idea because then you could litterally extend the reserve power from your trunk into the engine bay. that Idea is so sick, you dont even know!!!

[dohc v6]

Can you please explain your thoughts. Also why do I have to remove the existing wire, where does it even go? to the starter? I just wanna know before I spend another whole day under the car.

[Garrett Powered]

The stock charge wire left on will split the signal comming off the alt.

 

you want ALL the juice going to the bat first. thats the key.

 

you are trying to charge a remote battery with only part of the signal coming from the alt. and thats not enough.

 

run a 4 awg back to the aux. post. back up through the firewall.

 

Trust me, I am running a deep cycle in the trunk with 2100 watts and it stays around 13-15 volts with the w-7 pumping full blast. no drain or dimming or whining to speak of

[dohc v6]

Let me see if I understand. You want me to take the stock power wire from the alt and get rid of it. I think that it goes to the starter with a fuseable link correct? So then you want me to take another wire, preferable 4ga or better(thicker) and run to the aux post, where I am running the wire coming from the battery in the back , correct? So you are saying that my battery is not fully charging, correct? If that were the case would a bigger battery fix this? Because I did that and it did not work.

[Garrett Powered]

I dont know how you interpret that, but I am getting 13 with the car off and under load jumps up to 14.7 which is under safe parameters for your alt. it can really pump out the amps and stay cool while providing your whole car with craploads of power. you wont even need the cap but do it because it will provide an excellent grounding point for the engine bay that you lost when you relocated.

[Pontiac6KSTEAWD]

I do understand what he is saying. Remember, length of the wire drops the voltage off, and also the size. So the original Alternator wire was what? a 6 or 8 guage wire. And now that little wire has to charge a battery that is 20 feet away. Even thou the Charge wire goes to the big wire you just put in, the signal is still week because it came from this 6-8 guage wire. Thus making your alternator charge wire your weakest link. I am still not sure that this will solve the starting issue thou. I am still thinking about it.

[Pontiac6KSTEAWD]

In the morning 80% of the time it will start right up. But once I start going where I need to go during the day, if I stop more than 10 min it has a problem starting. If I go to get gas in my car, I turn the car off, pump the gas and it will start right up EVERYTIME.

 

This almost makes me think of a heat soaking issue on a coil pack or ignition module... But I am still thinking about this..

[GP1138]

In the morning 80% of the time it will start right up. But once I start going where I need to go during the day, if I stop more than 10 min it has a problem starting. If I go to get gas in my car, I turn the car off, pump the gas and it will start right up EVERYTIME.

 

This almost makes me think of a heat soaking issue on a coil pack or ignition module... But I am still thinking about this..

 

I was thinking about leaky injectors..

[dohc v6]

Ok so am I doing this alt upgrade. Also did I explain it correctly in my other post? I doubt that its a laky injector as when I move the battery to the front it startes everytime. Also TIMG and SHANE are both have similar problems.

[hell_raiser]

dude these cars suck for grounds. try to ground it in the trunk pan over one of the frame rails

 

[19Cutlass94]

When you ground the batter up front, are you using the factory ground? I would try to find a better ground in the trunk. The body itself like that isnt a good ground.

[dohc v6]

Damn I am getting mixed answers now. I was told the a the strut frame sucked so I put it to the frame. Now you guys are telling me to put it back. I do have good grounds. I have 3 grounds, 2 of which are 00 wire. I think its the alternator thing, but I would like someone to back garrett thory. I am not saying he is wrong. I just dont wanna be under the car for 4 hr and have this not work, plus bu out money.

[Garrett Powered]

keep the frame ground and the strut ground. I have a tripple ground in the trunk.

[hell_raiser]

yeah try the alt wire!

[Pontiac6KSTEAWD]

Althou in theory, the stuff garrett is talking is good logic. I am just not positive this is going to cure your problem. By the way it sounds, your are having a voltage drop off, IF it is a voltage drop off, at the computer (or injector pulses) while starting. Since the engine isnt running at this point, the alternator wire isnt going to do anything. Thats why i said I have to think about this some more.

 

I am trying to make sure its a voltage drop off at the computer thats causing this problem, but with a 00 guage wire, I dont see how this is posible. Youve got a decent ground, and a great positive. In my humble opinion, I think we are done with wiring for the battery, and have to trace down whats causing the computer, or sensors, to lag on the start, I dont think its a voltage drop off because of the wires that are currently being used. Not to mention how it mostly starts great when cold. Something else is going on...

 

Do you have a spare ECM around? And then do a good idle relearn, and see where it goes..

[dohc v6]

OK mna, just think about it. I tried to start it today and it just dumped fuel out. I am thinking about trying that ALT wire upgrade.

[Garrett Powered]

I wish I could take credit for solving this problem, but it was actually a local alt shop guru. this place in springfield, oregon. PM alternater.

 

I had been going through 1000 watt amps, batteries. bad ass AC delco AGM batts when they still made them. high output alts. then this guy explained to me how the CS 130D alt would blow away mine. we put one on and it still wouldnt power that amp. I was almost ready to install a second alt to power my system

 

thats when I left it to him and after awhile he figured it out. he shrink wrapped the original charge wire and ran an 8 ga. wire to the aux post. fixed.

 

13 and up after that.

 

also your battery is colder in the trunk so it has less capacity hence the voltage drop post warm up. however that will clear up after you get it fully charged. it needs a rich charge and/or warmth to excite the electrons. I thought that would be an issue since my AGM battery flows best at 70* F, but really was not noticeable.

 

edit: I dont really know if this applies to your situation or if it will even help you. I am more knowledgeable about it now than before all my problems. hopefully my theories help you in some way, but I am not 100% positive what you got going on with your car.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[hell_raiser]

Better ground wire form body to engine? "lol" no one thought of that.

[dohc v6]

Huuuh, we discussed that about 2 pages back.

[rockfangd]

Huuuh, we discussed that about 2 pages back.

lolol. I think that was one of the first ideas.

[Dark Ride]

In the morning 80% of the time it will start right up. But once I start going where I need to go during the day, if I stop more than 10 min it has a problem starting. If I go to get gas in my car, I turn the car off, pump the gas and it will start right up EVERYTIME.

 

This almost makes me think of a heat soaking issue on a coil pack or ignition module... But I am still thinking about this..

 

I was thinking about leaky injectors..

 

X2, I don't think its your wiring anymore.

[dohc v6]

Well think about it guys. I am going to fix the small things on my car this weekend. if you want me to run some test, post them, I am down to try anything. I dont wanna do the ALT wire just yet as I have to go that far with the wiring harness for the OBDII swap.