leman Posted September 17, 2007 Report Posted September 17, 2007 anyone ever change a engine cradle on a 92 gp or similar, was wondering if its a really big job or not, as mine is rusted through really bad on the passenger side. i can get one used for about $100. but dont want to do it if its a pita job. without looking at it i am unshure if the rack in pinoin is attached to the craddle or not, as welll as the rad supports, i can't find any info in the Haynes manual i have. i would have liked to just get it welded for the spots that are bad. but i am loking at around $200-$300 just to get that done. if i had a ark welder i'de do it myself but i don't. all info is welcomed Quote
GutlessSupreme Posted September 17, 2007 Report Posted September 17, 2007 -remove wheels -pop ball joints out of control arms - next parts up to you, either keep the control arms on the subframe and remove them later or pull them off now. you'll need to remove the sway bar mount bolts (2/side) from them if you're pulling them now. then remove the control arm to subframe bolts (2/side) -support the engine/tranny from the top. (!!!!!!!) -remove lower motor mount and tranny mount bolts (2 each) -unbolt power steering line -remove any attached wiring (I can't remember if there is any) -remove steering rack heat shield from subframe (two small bolts) -remove steering rack from subframe (2 big bolts) - steering rack shouldn't need to be supported, but it couldn't hurt. maybe some big zip ties around the down pipe. -begin removing subframe bolts to car. I'd do them about 1/4" each then go around and keep removing them. MAKE SURE the engine and tranny aren't coming down with it. The threads from the mounts might get caught up so give them a few whacks to knock them loose if you think there's tension pulling the engine down. -replace ALL 4 subframe bolts, and the bushings, and whatever might look rusted. get new ones. when reinstalling, the bolts must be torqued to around 108 ft-lbs, I believe is the official number. someone go over than to make sure I didn't miss anything life-threatening. I think that's pretty much it. Quote
leman Posted September 18, 2007 Author Report Posted September 18, 2007 the bolt holes for the cradle are they just like a bolt and a hole ,what i am trying to say is the hole bigger than the shaft of the bolt so like you need to move it around to square it up, or is just like pop in the bolt tighten it up and thats it. It should not need an alighnment afterwards. Quote
Bake82 Posted September 18, 2007 Report Posted September 18, 2007 the bolt holes for the cradle are they just like a bolt and a hole ,what i am trying to say is the hole bigger than the shaft of the bolt so like you need to move it around to square it up, or is just like pop in the bolt tighten it up and thats it. It should not need an alighnment afterwards. The hole the bolts go into move around but. It's weird to explain, but you'll see what I mean when you loosen the bolts off. You would need an alignment IMO, but it should not be that bad to drive to the closest shop. But whatever you do REPLACE ALL FOUR SUBFRAME BOLTS! You DO NOT want to break one like I did. It sucks! Quote
GutlessSupreme Posted September 18, 2007 Report Posted September 18, 2007 you would definetly need an alignment afterwards, imho. Quote
19Cutlass94 Posted September 18, 2007 Report Posted September 18, 2007 Wouldnt you need both a subframe alignment and a wheel alignment? Quote
leman Posted September 18, 2007 Author Report Posted September 18, 2007 i kinda wonder that also. but if i took and marked points to where the old one was and install the new used one in its same spot i should be ok i think. Quote
93CutlassSupreme Posted September 18, 2007 Report Posted September 18, 2007 how exactly do you align a subframe? Quote
GutlessSupreme Posted September 18, 2007 Report Posted September 18, 2007 the nuts holding the subframe bolts to the body are welded in place aren't they? there shouldn't be any misalignment. Quote
89SupremeCutty Posted September 19, 2007 Report Posted September 19, 2007 can you drop both the engine and tranny if you drop the cradle? Quote
GutlessSupreme Posted September 19, 2007 Report Posted September 19, 2007 yes, but you have to disconnect everything first, obivously (wiring/hoses/exhaust/axles/etc) Quote
Bake82 Posted September 19, 2007 Report Posted September 19, 2007 the nuts holding the subframe bolts to the body are welded in place aren't they? there shouldn't be any misalignment. they are not welded to the frame. They sit in a "cup" that keep them in the hole, but they can and do move around a little bit. Whether or not you need a subframe alignment I do not know...but it is something you could ask. Quote
93CutlassSupreme Posted September 19, 2007 Report Posted September 19, 2007 the nuts holding the subframe bolts to the body are welded in place aren't they? there shouldn't be any misalignment. they are not welded to the frame. They sit in a "cup" that keep them in the hole, but they can and do move around a little bit. that's retarded. Quote
Stevo Posted September 20, 2007 Report Posted September 20, 2007 I and another guy with 2 jacks some wood and airtools flipped a cradle in under 2 hours. He said 40minutes but we needed new cradle mounts because my rubbers were shot. Easy job. Just remember when you put that massive nut back on the bearing through which the axle threads through ... put the nut on by hand with say a breaker bar and tighten snug and then torque it. If you use an airtool the tool will hammer it on and mess the bearing up and pretty soon your looking at a pain in the arse job all over again. Seriously consider replacing all of your mounts too. This was an easy job in my opinion. Quote
leman Posted September 20, 2007 Author Report Posted September 20, 2007 well seeing as i dont have air tools nor do i have some one else to help me with this job , i suppoes its gonna take me a full day maybe 2 days. i was also thinking of leaving the controll arms attached to the sterring. so i will not have to remove the drive shaft nuts. worse case i just take and separate the ball joints and lower it with the cradle. also i should not have to separate the tie rod ends as the rack is stayn with the car. I am goint to try to ge the cradle and the controll ares as one piece but no garantee with the scrap yard if they'll do that. Quote
GutlessSupreme Posted September 20, 2007 Report Posted September 20, 2007 why would you have to remove the axle nuts? Quote
leman Posted September 20, 2007 Author Report Posted September 20, 2007 guess only if you were gonna drop the cradle with the struts as well Quote
GutlessSupreme Posted September 20, 2007 Report Posted September 20, 2007 yea, but you don't have to remove the struts. just seems like extra work to me.. Quote
Stevo Posted September 20, 2007 Report Posted September 20, 2007 Well ... you can try removing the frame by disconnecting the control arms from the subframe. The work area is smaller and getting the subframe control arm bolts off can be a pain in the ass if the control arm is held in place by the strut. Quote
Bake82 Posted September 20, 2007 Report Posted September 20, 2007 I see you used to live in Ottawa....Come back here, and I'd do this for you for a 2-4 of beer. I have air tools and can get it done in probably an hour or two tops. If not...Follow Gutlessupreme's write up(I've made a couple changes) EDITED AGAIN after Gutlessupreme's suggestion about the steering rack..makes sense for sure....leave it attached to the pinch bolt and just take off the lines from the subframe... -remove wheels -pop ball joints out of control arms -KEEP The control arms attached to the subframe! IMO makes it way way easier! -support the engine/tranny from the top. (!!!!!!!) -remove lower motor mount and tranny mount bolts (2 each) -Unbolt the steering rack exhaust shield -Unbolt steering rack from subframe -unbolt the power steering lines from the subframe(should be 3 bolts) -remove any attached wiring (I can't remember if there is any) I do believe there are a few wires attached to the subframe. But lower that subframe slowly to be sure. -begin removing subframe bolts to car. I'd do them about 1/4" each then go around and keep removing them. MAKE SURE the engine and tranny aren't coming down with it. The threads from the mounts might get caught up so give them a few whacks to knock them loose if you think there's tension pulling the engine down. -replace ALL 4 subframe bolts, and the bushings, and whatever might look rusted. get new ones. when reinstalling, the bolts must be torqued to around 108 ft-lbs, I believe is the official number. and then do the reverse to put it back in. I don't think it would be that hard at all, even without power tools(obviously makes lifea little easier, but not much. With these instructions, you do not need to remove the strut towers, just the subframe will come out the top. My offer is open for 2 weeks from now if you can wait that long! Any more questions ask. and GOOD LUCK! Quote
GutlessSupreme Posted September 20, 2007 Report Posted September 20, 2007 Just out of my own curiosity, I guess I don't know why you wouldn't just leave the steering rack supported in the car. Getting the pinch bolt back on is a pain in the ass, and maybe it's just me, but I hate dealing with fluids if I don't have to Quote
pwmin Posted September 20, 2007 Report Posted September 20, 2007 Just out of my own curiosity, I guess I don't know why you wouldn't just leave the steering rack supported in the car. Getting the pinch bolt back on is a pain in the ass, and maybe it's just me, but I hate dealing with fluids if I don't have to yeah, i think its much easier to unbolt the rack and keep it held up. Quote
Bake82 Posted September 21, 2007 Report Posted September 21, 2007 Just out of my own curiosity, I guess I don't know why you wouldn't just leave the steering rack supported in the car. Getting the pinch bolt back on is a pain in the ass, and maybe it's just me, but I hate dealing with fluids if I don't have to That's a good point....guess it would be easier to remove the shield bolts and the big steering rack bolts than deal with the fluids and stuff..... Never thought of how much a pain in the ass that pinch bolt is...I put mine back in without a motor..it was a bitch at that point...... Quote
Stevo Posted September 21, 2007 Report Posted September 21, 2007 Funny ... we are all doing it differently. I wonder if it was because I was doing some 'investigating' when I did mine when the subframe mounts were sour on my 88'. Quote
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