kuwaitliberation Posted September 2, 2007 Report Share Posted September 2, 2007 My Cutlass Supreme (3.4L DOHC) slipped the timing belt. So, I have changed the timing belt and all the other crap. It still won't fire. It will turn over. I took the valve covers off to see if I could hear a bent valve, but it all sounds good. It doesn't seem to be getting fuel into the cylndars because there is no smell of fuel, and the plugs are dry. I hit the relief valve on the fuel rail, and fuel squirted out, so I know it has pressure on the rail. The plugs are firing. I tested them with a timing light to see if it would flash, so it is getting fire. Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psych0matt Posted September 2, 2007 Report Share Posted September 2, 2007 did you time it? or did you just throw a new belt back on? if its off a tooth or two, it'll run like crap, any more and it probably wont run. I used the timing marks just fine twice, but when i swapped the engine and had different parts from the old and new, I had to take it in and have it timed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuwaitliberation Posted September 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2007 did you time it? or did you just throw a new belt back on? if its off a tooth or two, it'll run like crap, any more and it probably wont run. I used the timing marks just fine twice, but when i swapped the engine and had different parts from the old and new, I had to take it in and have it timed Thanks, Matt. I set the timing by the service manual. The right side (firewall) the marks are to the center. The left side (radiator) marks are outside. The lower cam was set to the drain hole with the crank at TDC (about 2 o'clock was the mark). For that matter, I know how to remove the valve covers and visually find the timing. Well, it's midnight here. I am going to bed. Been working on this all day long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psych0matt Posted September 2, 2007 Report Share Posted September 2, 2007 so in other words your timing is correct, and you have spark and fuel... disconnect the battery for a few mins and then put it back together, maybe its storing a code or something? cant think of anything else we're missing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuwaitliberation Posted September 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2007 so in other words your timing is correct, and you have spark and fuel... disconnect the battery for a few mins and then put it back together, maybe its storing a code or something? cant think of anything else we're missing Had the computer off and in my hand for awhile, for that matter. I also did disconnect the battery cable overnight, so no codes stored. I am thinking (here I go again!) that the injectors aren't spitting for some reason. If they were, I'd have fuel on the plugs, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psych0matt Posted September 2, 2007 Report Share Posted September 2, 2007 only thing i can think of at the moment (which probably isnt much cuz i just got up) is to double check everything that you took apart. maybe theres a plug or something that you overlooked when putting things back together? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted September 2, 2007 Report Share Posted September 2, 2007 Rent a compression tester from AZ??? I'd start there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuwaitliberation Posted September 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2007 OK. Update. I took the top of the engine off so I could see the cams. The timing marks are WAAAAAY off. With the flats up on all the cams and crank at #1 top dead center. #1 is at the very end of the exhaust stroke. The right exahust cam is just closing the #1 exhaust valve and just about to open the #1 intake valve. If all flats are up, do I put the timing belt on and it is in time right there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuwaitliberation Posted September 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 Found the correct timing procedures and set it up. Got the engine started just to hear the bent valves. Crap!!!! Any suggestions? What is the easiest/cheapest route to replace the heads or valves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 Any suggestions? What is the easiest/cheapest route to replace the heads or valves? Pull them off and replace? Ok, seriously, theres like 5 3.4's for sale in our for sale section right now, all dirt cheap. I'd start there, gathering parts. While your waiting, start tearing yours apart. Get the new parts in. If you want a bit more performance, take the heads to a reputable shop and have them worked over (valve job, port and polish, maybe even shave a bit of material off for higher compression), then re-install. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuwaitliberation Posted September 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 The last thing I need is another car. I already have my truck, so transportation isn't a big deal. I want my w-body back on the road! LOL! I just found some used heads with 180 day warranty for $356 shipped to my house. I'll start tearing the engine down and have these shipped in. The car they came off of had 92,000 miles. It was a '94. How does that sound? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psych0matt Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 a little pricey, but if it's what you need and you want them that bad. I bought my whole engine for 250, and a 600 mile drive, but that was also a great deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 NO, I meant 3.4 engines themselves for pretty cheap in the for sale section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psych0matt Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 NO, I meant 3.4 engines themselves for pretty cheap in the for sale section. you could probably get a parts engine for around 100 or 200, or a good working one for 300 or 400. if youre going to tear into it like that, I'd hit up some junkyards and grab what you need, probably for a heck of a lot cheaper, since you're planning on tearing into it anyways. just what i'd do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White93z34 Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 what conditons did your belt break under? hard acceleration? when mine went i was just coasting and i just put a new belt and components on and its been fine ever since. i would personally do a compression check before anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psych0matt Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 mine broke at nearly 80 mph with no consequences. I blew up the engine later due to a hole in the rad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuwaitliberation Posted September 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 It skipped several teeth. Once I set the timing (yes, I used the 60degreev6 instructions), I heard the same sound of rattling valves that I did just as it was dying. Several people confirmed that the rattling was some bent valves. I won't need to replace anything else on the engine. It only has 66K miles on it. It is in excellent condition otherwise. Oh, and the timing belt slipped when an old lady pulled out in front of me and I tested the ABS feature completely. Compression check showed zero on 4 and 6. I did confirm that they are coming off of a wrecked Z34. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHCRagtopguy Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 I don't understand the bent valves. 1993 is supposed to be a non-interference engine. When I blew my belt (it was low RPMs), the valves were fine. Good luck with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuwaitliberation Posted September 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 I don't understand the bent valves. 1993 is supposed to be a non-interference engine. When I blew my belt (it was low RPMs), the valves were fine. Good luck with it. I have never heard about the non-interference stuff. However, to get to that point, you would lose a lot of compression. From what I have read, it is actually very tight in there. I am going to have to read up more on that. It doesn't seem right. If you have any supporting stuff, I would love to see how they would have accomplished this. BTW, I know that they have removed the cam covers before me as the gaskets were not OE standards. It had some sort of goop they used to seal off the plug holes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuwaitliberation Posted September 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2007 I don't understand the bent valves. 1993 is supposed to be a non-interference engine. When I blew my belt (it was low RPMs), the valves were fine. Good luck with it. I just confirmed that it is a non-interference engine and my valves are all fine. I have removed both heads and have the valves soaking in carb cleaner now. Still not sure what the rattling is. I imagine I set the timing wrong. I am going over the documentation that is here and on 60*v6 website to make sure I set the timing correctly. 1996 and newer is an interference engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted September 15, 2007 Report Share Posted September 15, 2007 1996 and newer is an interference engine. Thats still a bit under discussion as well. There have been 96-97 3.4 owners that have had the timing belt snap with no bent valves. And... there have been 91-95 3.4's timing belt snap and the valves were toasted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuwaitliberation Posted September 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 Update. The lifters were shot. I didn't realize it until I went to put them back in. They little "oil pumps" were stuck on about half of them. Went to AZ and got all 24 for $120. I'll finish the assembly tomorrow, however I am still having problems with the cam timing sprockets. I can't get them loose. I can get the bolts off, but how do you loosen them to free-spin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White93z34 Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 you use a cam gear puller. i've been told a standard 3 jaw pulley puller will work too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwmin Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 if you can, i'd try and get some 94-95 timing gears. theyre a lot easier and you dont have to take them off. you can use 96-97 but they have more teeth, so you'd need a different belt and the toothed-gear on the engine off the donor (brain fart right now on what its actually called ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuwaitliberation Posted September 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 So, I got the lifters in and they are about half the diameter of the original. They are also about twice the height. Autozone swears that is the correct lifter. Where the hell do I get new lifters for this car?!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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