glassvial Posted July 31, 2007 Report Share Posted July 31, 2007 My luck with this piece of shit car is neverending. Installed new head gaskets, had the heads p-tested, machined (the works) new LIM's and the whole 9. Now she doesn't start. Cranks, backfires a few times, ALMOST starts, but doesn't. Car started fine before we did the head gasket job (we did the LIM job but not the heads so this is motor tear down #2, basically). Spark is ok, fuel delivery is ok also. Any suggestions? Thanks. See page 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1138 Posted August 1, 2007 Report Share Posted August 1, 2007 All the wires hooked back up to the ICM OK? Do you have the correct plug wires to the correct plugs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SigEpCutlass Posted August 1, 2007 Report Share Posted August 1, 2007 Do you have the correct plug wires to the correct plugs? My thoughts exactly. Chances are if the car isn't starting after you tore it down, the wires are not on correctly. Otherwise, if you have both fuel and spark, I'd look at the alt or starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Dubya Posted August 1, 2007 Report Share Posted August 1, 2007 I did a head job on a 3400 and it gave me a multiple cylinder misfire code when I started it for the first time with the wires in the correct order and brand new spark plugs. If you removed the lifters and cleaned them it can take quite a few revolutions for the lifters to pressurize and "come up". Plug wires on the coils from left to right on the 3400 (I think 3100 is the same) 1-4 6-3 2-5. Rear cylinders are 1-3-5 fronts are 2-4-6 from left to right, when looking at the engine from the front. (passenger--->drivers side) If the order is wrong it will struggle to run, but it may take it a while to get the lifters to come up even if the wires are correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassvial Posted August 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2007 The first 2 replies are way off (trust me, this car has been a nightmare, so the "easy" fix is not even close THE fix). Last reply is a possibility, but I'm still getting a misfire. I think something went wrong when we put this bitch back together, and we have to tear it apart again and probably do a valve job now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted August 2, 2007 Report Share Posted August 2, 2007 uh oh. are you aware the intake and exhaust valves are different lengths? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassvial Posted August 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2007 Yep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Dubya Posted August 2, 2007 Report Share Posted August 2, 2007 I don't think the LIM will install properly if you install the pushrods backwards, but I could be wrong. Double check your wire order, possibly pull the plugs to let them dry off if they are wet. If they are wet you can probably blame the lifters, but could be something else. Check those plugs, look for wet ones, then double check the wire order, if you have to pull the fuel pump fuse and crank it over for a minute or so to build oil pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassvial Posted August 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2007 I don't think the LIM will install properly if you install the pushrods backwards, but I could be wrong. Correct, you are wrong, unfortunately (ps: not my fault, btw) Double check your wire order, possibly pull the plugs to let them dry off if they are wet. Done and done and done some more Brake cleaner is a great thing. If they are wet you can probably blame the lifters, but could be something else. Check those plugs, look for wet ones, then double check the wire order, if you have to pull the fuel pump fuse and crank it over for a minute or so to build oil pressure. Yeah they were getting wet at first, then they started to dry up, but there's one (cyl 1) that still keeps getting somewhat wet, so we think whatever the f'k is wrong, it's there. Unfortunately, that's also on the back damn side of the motor...so I fear another tear-down is in order (even though my buddy is trying to be optimistic thinking it's going to be some easy fix...ho ho, ha ha.) Excuse me if my in-line quoting doesn't look right, I tried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Dubya Posted August 2, 2007 Report Share Posted August 2, 2007 well at least check for spark and loose or not connected harnesses, then I guess it's time to tear it back down. I think you can pull the pushrods with the rocker covers off, but I don't know how much that will do for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassvial Posted August 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2007 well at least check for spark and loose or not connected harnesses, then I guess it's time to tear it back down. I think you can pull the pushrods with the rocker covers off, but I don't know how much that will do for you. Already checked spark, it's great on all 6, and the harnesses are all ok and plugged in where they belong. We already double checked the pushrods with the valve covers off, but I think the damage has already been done and we have to do another tear down...we're going to do a compression test first, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted August 2, 2007 Report Share Posted August 2, 2007 Dumb question, but you have verified fuel pressure at the rail? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassvial Posted August 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2007 Not yet, but it was fine before we did this tear-down. Also, I don't think the car would run at all if it was a fuel problem (and only be apparently misfiring on 1 cyl). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassvial Posted August 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2007 Cool! No compression on cyls 2 and 5...gee, that might be a problem eh? Sorry kids, when I post here about this nightmare car, I'm way beyond the "check the wires" point! but thanks for trying, anyhow. Got the heads off it (again) and we're done for tonight. Looking like a valve job, reassembly and attempt number 46 at finishing this bitch tomorrow. I SO wish we would have just done the f'n head gaskets when we did the LIM's...argh. Let that be a lesson, if you're already torn down that far, just spend the extra few bucks and do it, would have saved me huge headaches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Dubya Posted August 3, 2007 Report Share Posted August 3, 2007 you live you learn. The 3400 van I did them on needed head gaskets, but the mechanic that looked at if first just said it needed intakes. I took it apart myself and the intakes were fine, the crush ring on cylinder one was separated from the gasket. There was no way I was going that far without taking another 10 bolts off to remove the heads and do it right. Good luck, make sure to check your pushrods!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassvial Posted August 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2007 You mean these pushrods? [attachment deleted by admin] Removed to free up storage space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassvial Posted August 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2007 Got it all back together, made sure everything went in right this time, but it's misfiring BADLY, keeps throwing a P0300 or P0304 code, so now what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Dubya Posted August 4, 2007 Report Share Posted August 4, 2007 if someone can define those codes it will get you a lot farther than I can. However once I know what they are I may be able to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassvial Posted August 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2007 P0300 is an engine misfire (google search is pretty easy). P0301-0308 are supposed to define what cylinder it's coming from. If I run the scanner at idle, it gives me P0300, if I run at high idle/rev, it comes back with P0304 (which would indicate cyl 4, I guess). We only replaced the valves for the cylinders we thought were bad (2 and 5 like I mentioned before), maybe we should have done all of them while we were at it, but I would rather find the nearest cliff and drop this car off it than have to tear this motor apart again, I swear. And again, before we tore it apart (this time around) it was running fine (except the overheating issue due to the head gaskets) so fuel is likely not the problem, nor is spark/ignition of any sort I would think. I found a 30-step diagnosis, but parts of it call for a freeze frame, and my $40 scanner can't do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassvial Posted August 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2007 Boy did I stump everybody here or what? Latest suggestion I've been given is to replace the REST of the valves (the ones we haven't done so far, besides cyl 2 and 5's) and also pull the lifters, drain them of oil in a vice (somehow), re-install them, and the valves and the whole 9, and try, try, try again. This is really getting on my nerves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Dubya Posted August 7, 2007 Report Share Posted August 7, 2007 were the valves on 2 and 5 definetely bent? Would seem to me the pushrods would bend and give sooner than the valves would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassvial Posted August 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2007 Definitely bent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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