Sub is not working

[Identity Crisis]

I just completed a total install of my ALPINE system.

 

The speakers sound great and are working more then fine. The 4ch amp is fine as well as can be seen form the sound quality.

 

But my sub is not THUMPING. if I dont go past 15 on the HU then it moves and give minor sound but if I go over that it stops all together.

 

The Amp is not blowing any fuses and I have tried different speaker wires and swithced the RCAs around. BTW when it is making some noise it sounds cracky like.

 

Here are the specs of my system

SPECS:

ALPINE CDA-9885 HeadUnit

CEA-2006 Power Rating (4Ohm@14.4 V =1% THD+N), S/N 80dBA (Ref: 1W into 4Ohm): 16W x 4

Max Power Output: 45W x 4

 

Alpine Type R 6x9 SPR69C

RMS Power Output: 100W

Peak Power Output: 300W

 

Alpine Type R 5.25 SPR13C

Max RMS Power Output: 90W

Peak Power Output: 270W

 

Alpine Type R 12" Dual Voice Coil SUB

Power Handling Capacity (RMS): 500W

Power Handling Capacity (Peak): 1500W

 

Alpine V-Power Mono Power Amplifier (for Subwoofer) MRP-M350

700W x 1 (Max)

• 350W x 1 RMS [2 Ω @14.4V (1%THD)]

• 200W x 1 RMS [4 Ω @14.4V (1%THD)]

• Bass Engine (Variable LP Crossover, Bass EQ)

 

Alpine V-Power 4/3/2 Channel Power Amplifier MRP-F240

- 4/3/2 Channel power amplifier

- Built-in Crossover

- Blue Power Status LED

- 75Wx4 (MAX)

- RMS 14.4V Power

- 100W x 2 [4Bridged (0.3%THD)]

- 50W x 4 RMS [2(0.3%THD)]

- 40W x 4 RMS [4(0.08%THD)]

[Ryan from Ohio]

Try a different sub on the amp.

 

Recheck the wiring on the sub.

 

If you got a DMM set it to Ohms and toss it on each coil. Report back.

[19Cutlass94]

what are your filters set to?

[Puggsley456]

In addition to what the guys have already mentioned, check your sub amp's ground connection, and with the DMM check to see what your amps output is at the sub box connection.

[Garrett Powered]

well you are a little under powering it so it will be a little crackly sounding. even my w7 crackles because I turned the gain all the way up on the bass boost and of course turned off the subsonic for awesome lows. thats what you want though, just run the rca's off the sub-out on the deck and turn the gain up. if your deck has preset eq curves hit r&b or club and see how it hits.

 

I run a 1500 x 1 @ 1 ohm and the sub pulls 3 ohms to stay cool. I could run it at 1 ohm too with my 7.00 coil to drop it from .75 to 1.00 off the sub and pull 1500 straight out and run it hot but I like the set-up too much right now to risk running it hot. as it sits now the w7 probably sees around 7-8 hundred clean watts, well probably cleaner if I had another set of JL audio rca cables. DAMN they are nice. I got a set of $80 JL rca cables and it helped a crapload on the front channel. guess my $50 cables from 5 years ago are now CRAP compared to todays standards.

[Ryan from Ohio]

^^^

 

Dont listen to him... Hes insane, seriously.

 

Underpowering wont make a subwoofer crackle. Having the gain and/or bass boost all the way up is simply retarded. You are just begging for trouble. Clippy clippy clippy W7 go poof magic smoke... ohhhh magic smoke, yes....

 

What about a 7 coil? Are you thinking of adding in another item in hopes of lowering your Ohms? I hope not.

 

http://www.bcae1.com

 

I would sugguest you do some reading before you have a nice sub junk.

[Garrett Powered]

listen RYAN. I was told two different things by two different shops in town here and the guy that sold me the coil told me it would drop the ohms from .75 to 1. I am in no way recommending this and have not tried it. I clicked your link and what is that? not helpful to me. I am happy with running it at 3 ohms is what I am saying. you dont think I should run the coil?

[Garrett Powered]

a w7 is a dvc speaker. each voice coil is 1.5 ohms. I can run it at 3 or .75 ohms.

 

the coil is just wound up copper wire and was cheap. I got it for experimental purposes but I am very leary of using it. what if it changes freq. response? sucks power? doesnt ohm out right? too many variables./

[Ryan from Ohio]

Many moons ago Veritas made an item that allowed you to manipulate impedance, but it had a wattage that had to be observed.

 

All I can say is whatever shop recommended you that you NEVER go back their again, they are idiots. Im glad you didnt put it in. I wouldnt like to hear about that poor W7 dying :(

 

Also it wouldnt drop if its at .75, it would gain. Like I said, whatever shop told you that is full of it.

 

[Garrett Powered]

when I said drop I meant change

[slick]

Sounds like a bad ground or incorrectly set gains. Start by turning your gain down, then go from there.

[Garrett Powered]

me or him???

 

the amp hes using is just way too small for the sub if you ask me.

 

500 w rms sub, 350 rms @ 2 ohm amp with way too small and inefficient wiring.

 

 

if its hooked up right you should be able to utilise the whole range of gain safely.

[Ryan from Ohio]

:willynilly: :willynilly: :willynilly: :willynilly:

 

http://www.bcae1.com/2ltlpwr.htm

 

READ IT, READ IT AGAIN

 

http://www.bcae1.com/gaincon2.htm

 

 

[Puggsley456]

me or him???

 

the amp hes using is just way too small for the sub if you ask me.

 

500 w rms sub, 350 rms @ 2 ohm amp with way too small and inefficient wiring.

 

 

if its hooked up right you should be able to utilise the whole range of gain safely.

Ummmm.........No its not.

 

To say that you should be able to utilize the entire range of the gain knob safely is an absurd statement.

 

Even the most expensive and immaculately installed systems never utilize the full range of an amp gain knob. If a person were to do that it just shows that they dont have a clue what they are doing.

 

Clipping = Evil

Too much Gain = Clipping

Therefore.... To much Gain = Evil

[Garrett Powered]

turning the gain all the way up is not always too much "evil" gain. only if its clipping.

 

my amp works perfect at all levels. Its just not loud enough until you turn it all the way up.

 

I havent seen how he hooked his up but could be the amp is not good enough for that sub.

 

 

and who really knows what they are doing until they actually have bad ass equipment to play with?

 

I had a PG titanium with a remote volume knob designed to be tweaked all the way up and down and I had it mounted where the ash tray was in the back wall panel.

 

I have never blown up 1000w+ amps by messing with knobs. its always some fatal wiring flaw.

[Puggsley456]

 

I had a PG titanium with a remote volume knob designed to be tweaked all the way up and down and I had it mounted where the ash tray was in the back wall panel.

 

I have never blown up 1000w+ amps by messing with knobs. its always some fatal wiring flaw.

 

Well first off the PG ti's remote bass knob isnt a gain knob, it attenuates the amps output based on its setting. It cant increase the gain passed what is physically set on the amp.

 

And you usually dont blow amps by using to much gain, baring it has enough thermal capacity, you blow drivers due to distortion/clipped signal.

[Garrett Powered]

no you blow drivers by turning the volume up too high with a amp thats too big.

 

with his system thats just not going to happen.

[Puggsley456]

no you blow drivers by turning the volume up too high with a amp thats too big.

 

with his system thats just not going to happen.

 

Oh man! I am so done with this thread.

[slick]

Gain is not volume control. I have NEVER installed an amplifier and sub combo that had absolutely no distortion with the gain at max. It's retarded to do so.

[Ryan from Ohio]

 

turning the gain all the way up is not always too much "evil" gain. only if its clipping.

 

Its common knowledge in the electronics industry that most units peak out around 75%-85% of the control range. Past this point the distortion levels rise dramatically for the small amount of power you get in return.

 

Old school amp setting methods were always 3/4 of gain... Its still a rule of thumb, never set it OVER 3/4 way.

 

no you blow drivers by turning the volume up too high with a amp thats too big.

 

Sure thats one way. But theres always more than one way to skin a cat, if you skin cats...

 

and who really knows what they are doing until they actually have bad ass equipment to play with?

 

All depend son what you call bad ass? If your calling your Audiovox bad ass, then I guess my McIntosh cant hold a candle to it.

 

Lastly I dont think its much of a matter of blowing up the amp, rather blowing up his speakers...

 

Back on track?

 

[Garrett Powered]

common knowledge?

rule of thumb?

 

what does that have to do with matching the amps voltage to the decks voltage?

 

 

You dont know what I have and I like it that way. audiovox.

 

I know all about mcintosh amps. The guy who sold me the coil sells those. still I shouldnt go back there ever again?

 

yet I am retarded and hes an idiot. he runs the same amp you do.

 

 

dont care what you guys say, hes not going to blow that sub.

[19Cutlass94]

The gain on the amp is used to match the voltage coming form the deck. This way, your able to get the most power out of everything without clipping or sending a 'dirty' signal anywhere.

[Puggsley456]

I cant stay out of this thread......!

 

 

Garrett.....really.....read bcae1.com before you spout your babble.

 

 

Severe Clipping (square wave):

 

It always amazes me when I hear some idiot driving down the road and the audio is clearly distorted (is that possible :-). Many people drive their amplifiers into what could be called a square wave output (white line below). When an amplifier is pushed that hard, it is actually possible to drive the speaker with twice as much power as the amplifier can cleanly produce into the speaker. As you can see below, the yellow sine wave is the maximum 'clean' output that the amp can produce. When an amplifier is pushed way too hard, the signal will eventually look like the white line. The effective voltage of the white line is ~1.414 x the yellow line. This means the the total power driven into the speaker by the clipped (square wave) signal is double the power delivered by the 'clean' signal (yellow line). This means that the power is double but the cooling of the voice coil will not increase in proportion with the power increase (since the voice coil isn't moving as much as it needs to be for the given power dissipation). This will lead to the voice coil overheating. If we compared the output of a 100 watt amp (the one that's clipping) to a 200 watt amp, the 200 watt amplifier would be able to push the speaker as much as 40% farther than the 100 watt amp (depending on the frequency of the signal). This extra travel (in each direction from its point of rest) would result in added airflow around the voice coil.

 

Note:

 

* If your speakers are capable of handling significantly more than your amplifier can produce, driving them with a clipped signal will not likely hurt them.

* If the speakers can handle 3 or 4 times the power that your amplifier can produce, there's virtually no way to damage your speakers (no matter how clipped the signal is).

* If your speakers are rated for the same power handling as your amplifier is capable of producing cleanly, driving them with a clipped signal for extended periods of time may cause speaker damage and/or premature failure.

* If your speakers are rated for the same power handling as your amplifier is capable of producing cleanly, driving them with a square wave signal for extended periods of time will likely cause speaker damage.

 

[Ryan from Ohio]

common knowledge?

rule of thumb?

 

what does that have to do with matching the amps voltage to the decks voltage?

 

 

You dont know what I have and I like it that way. audiovox.

 

I know all about mcintosh amps. The guy who sold me the coil sells those. still I shouldnt go back there ever again?

 

yet I am retarded and hes an idiot. he runs the same amp you do.

 

 

dont care what you guys say, hes not going to blow that sub.

 

Dealer # please?

 

If a McIntosh dealer is that incompetent I will notify McIntosh so they can do whatever they need to do. Idiocy and Excellence do NOT belong together...

 

While the gain isnt a volume control, it directly correlates how much the inputted signal will be amplified. If you turn it up higher than what the amp is capable of, thats when you get square waves.

 

When you get a square wave it sends straight DC to your speaker. WHen the straight DC hits the speaker, it fully extends one way or the other, to maximum xmax. It builds heat up rapidly...

 

It baffles me how people talk about what they do not know. Better yet how they try to argue about it? I think everyones been very nice to you about this so far. I guess I got to be the person to tell you to STFU. The advice you are giving out potentially has bad effects for others equipment. Ever notice how your the only person with the view you have on these issues and theres 4-6 others correcting these views? I guess the majority is wrong?

 

 

[Garrett Powered]

I cant stay out of this thread......!

 

 

Garrett.....really.....read bcae1.com before you spout your babble.

 

 

Severe Clipping (square wave):

 

It always amazes me when I hear some idiot driving down the road and the audio is clearly distorted (is that possible :-). Many people drive their amplifiers into what could be called a square wave output (white line below). When an amplifier is pushed that hard, it is actually possible to drive the speaker with twice as much power as the amplifier can cleanly produce into the speaker. As you can see below, the yellow sine wave is the maximum 'clean' output that the amp can produce. When an amplifier is pushed way too hard, the signal will eventually look like the white line. The effective voltage of the white line is ~1.414 x the yellow line. This means the the total power driven into the speaker by the clipped (square wave) signal is double the power delivered by the 'clean' signal (yellow line). This means that the power is double but the cooling of the voice coil will not increase in proportion with the power increase (since the voice coil isn't moving as much as it needs to be for the given power dissipation). This will lead to the voice coil overheating. If we compared the output of a 100 watt amp (the one that's clipping) to a 200 watt amp, the 200 watt amplifier would be able to push the speaker as much as 40% farther than the 100 watt amp (depending on the frequency of the signal). This extra travel (in each direction from its point of rest) would result in added airflow around the voice coil.

 

Note:

 

* If your speakers are capable of handling significantly more than your amplifier can produce, driving them with a clipped signal will not likely hurt them.

* If the speakers can handle 3 or 4 times the power that your amplifier can produce, there's virtually no way to damage your speakers (no matter how clipped the signal is).

* If your speakers are rated for the same power handling as your amplifier is capable of producing cleanly, driving them with a clipped signal for extended periods of time may cause speaker damage and/or premature failure.

* If your speakers are rated for the same power handling as your amplifier is capable of producing cleanly, driving them with a square wave signal for extended periods of time will likely cause speaker damage.

 

 

 

 

I did, I went through the exhaustingly boring dialogue and while that applies to tapedeck converted Ipods and lowgrade equipment which I dont use. basically a trip back to kindergarden.

 

I saw no valid info either way on or any mention of coil use with subwoofers to support your flames or ryans.