Andrew Posted July 17, 2007 Report Posted July 17, 2007 you have much to learn young padowan. -pre 72 cars used a 'gross' rating system for horsepower, we now use 'net'. they did NOT make more power. example: my L36 has more power than any camaro 6 cylinder til 95 when they started using the 3800. dont ever try to compare the old V8 to our V6, thats apples to oranges.(although the L67 is comparable to the 71+ Z/28) -the EGR is not on 24/7. its only used when up to temp and cruising. this can be disabled too, and a blockoff plate installed. the second 02 can be 'fooled' so you can run without a cat. -i would venture to say the 3400 block is stronger than the 3.1. -OBDII tuners can be used to create more HP than you think, and the possibilities are endless if you know how to use the tuner. you just have the dinosaur thought process that computer controlled = garbage.
BIGBULS Posted July 17, 2007 Report Posted July 17, 2007 1)how many have actually swaped a 3.1 multi port for the 3400sfi and did and obd2? 2)how many have actually owned a 3.1mfi pre 93 (93 has an ob1 and the 4t60-e) 3)have u ever noticed how much the older cars killed on hp and how now adays were pushing,pleading, and begging to get power out of these "better" engines 4)also its is required by state law if a car is modified no matter age to fit emission controls then it must pass them , second fine tuning= bs if u want a stable ilde yes but in the first place if the car was not recycling exuast fuems to burn off the left over carban then u wouldnt need to adjust anything, all ur doing is controling the fuel to air ratio, yes a bettter ratio means more gas milage, but in the end but back to the start the idea is to get the most oxygen to the piston the fastes and to have the spark on time. older car did this fine with no issues and had more power then cars today. Go figure no emissions no obd2 i used to race for a living fine tuning a car works on 1/0 prosses basic logic, now let me ask u the amount of pressure pushed froma single ignition is th logic or anilog i mean that ingnition is a variable its constenly changing computers and such things work on logice eather yes or no, open closed, 1/0. after having a tunible car that i had a on board labtop to adjust the air intake to pick three diffrent shift settings for my tranny, to moniter the psi and all my other sensors at the same time. u loose out on what is there to gain from power i had but stillt he response was sad odbd2 no matter how u set it is a restrictor its main purpose in life is to cut toxins all that exuast that goes out ur pipe is refined they turned the modern engine into a refinery for exhuast, so tell me how are u supost to get a true ignition on a dud system all thefresh air u take in get s mixed with fumes that arent refined enough. o2 sensor beside telling computer if exaust is to lean or rich lets computer no to adjust the eger valve and such to make sure the exaust is clean or as clean as possible. now im trying to start a argument all iw anted to know what was better 3.1 mfi or customizing a 3400 sfi, and every one made point as for how good the 3400 is but i wonder how much better it would be running on better oxygen and less fumes from the exuast also the 4t60 is an analog system works on true hydrolics do to throttle response no need to set shift points u control them by controling ur rpms incase no one knew that so if i can get back to the reason for the post the 3.4 block is a strong block but so is the 3.1 turbo now my q is can the intake manifold from3.1mfi be put on a 3.4 some one said yes i just wanted to verify i like my obd2 less way of life and i dont want to go switching harnesses and crap mfi system has hope but just not in the gas mpg area thats all i want to know form what i gathe the 3.4 should line right up with my 4t60 bell houseing and all correct i mean the 4t60-e has the same tor convert and desing? yes i know i prob missspelled like 80 things an ran on like 40 senstences but im not here to wina spelling B what gets me is that every one is so quik to upgrade to 3.4 sfi but what about a 3.4mfi why not no one has actualy seen what the out put would be gms doc was a mfi and it had major power despite the second over head cam I have tried to help you, as have others.............yet you refuse to listen to people who actually know what they are talking about. So, with that in mind, I would suggest converting to a Gen I Iron head setup and downgrade to a carburerator. It'll make SOOOOO much more power than an OBDII system.
88Regal Limited Posted July 18, 2007 Report Posted July 18, 2007 odbd2 no matter how u set it is a restrictor its main purpose in life is to cut toxins all that exuast that goes out ur pipe is refined they turned the modern engine into a refinery for exhuast, so tell me how are u supost to get a true ignition on a dud system all thefresh air u take in get s mixed with fumes that arent refined enough. o2 sensor beside telling computer if exaust is to lean or rich lets computer no to adjust the eger valve and such to make sure the exaust is clean or as clean as possible. False. It is a computer control system used to A- make the engine more efficient by burning all the fuel and everything else B- ease of mixture control by computer tuning C- adjust timing and timing curves under WOT and part throttle D- adjust tranny shift points without needing a rebuild kit E- reduce emissions. A correctly tuned V8 with a carb can make less emissions than an un-tuned computer 6cyl, but (which I hate to admit liking old school mechanics) is that the OBD II system is just more efficient in controlling an engine for performance, AS WELL AS reducing emissions. By adjusting the total timing, timing curve, A/F ratio, you have a more efficient, and more powerful car. (even if we're talking an extra 20+ horsepower). As I well know by running 2 750cfm carbs, rich all the time HURTS performance. a 12.8-13.2 A/F ratio ALWAYS is what is needed for the most power your engine can make. And like we've already said, a 3400 top end swap on an early 60* V6 WILL make more power than the shitty, low flowing 3.1 top end, even without the OBD II. If you dont want a computer controlled car, modify something with a carburetor and a distributer instead of what you want to do. I personally really don't care for computer vehicles, but the day will come when I do something with one. Untill then, I'll stick to carbs, I know my way around them. And please, don't bash something you know NOTHING about, open your mind to the possibilities of what can be done. If you keep making douche comments talking out of your ass, I won't be as nice to you than I am at the moment. I'm trying to explain this as maturely as I can, but I'm losing patients. I wish I was a mod, you'd have a warning right now.
timestalker45 Posted July 18, 2007 Author Report Posted July 18, 2007 how this get to carberators? all i asked which would be easier and fast a turbo3.1 or a 3.4 then tryning to do a custom turbo and im done arguing about the obd2 as yes i had a tunner system its a waste i have seen better response out of the ecm then the obd2 system
Supreme Cutlass Posted July 18, 2007 Report Posted July 18, 2007 how this get to carberators? all i asked which would be easier and fast a turbo3.1 or a 3.4 then tryning to do a custom turbo and im done arguing about the obd2 as yes i had a tunner system its a waste i have seen better response out of the ecm then the obd2 system It's sarcasm. He meant that if you're going to go backwards you might as well slap on a distributor and carb and call it muscle.
per0781 Posted July 18, 2007 Report Posted July 18, 2007 i have seen better response out of the ecm then the obd2 system lol the forum has seriosuly reached a new low. lock it now before the stupidty leaks out.
Dark Ride Posted July 18, 2007 Report Posted July 18, 2007 timestalker, do yourself and us a favor. Clear your head of all this old school garbag. Go back and reread everything that these guys are trying to tell you, THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT! Some of us have torn apart more of these engines than you have ever seen.
Brian P Posted July 18, 2007 Report Posted July 18, 2007 yes i had a tunner system its a waste i have seen better response out of the ecm then the obd2 system Out of curiosity, which one?
19Cutlass94 Posted July 18, 2007 Report Posted July 18, 2007 Put a quad4 in there! I heard they make monster powar!
Andrew Posted July 18, 2007 Report Posted July 18, 2007 1 vote for a ford flathead v8 i vote turbo LS2. oh wait, thats computer controlled...... Put a quad4 in there! I heard they make monster powar! hey!!!! the W41 makes 190 hp, thats pretty damn good for a 4 banger, especially being its N/A.
19Cutlass94 Posted July 18, 2007 Report Posted July 18, 2007 Thats why he should put one in there! screw the 3400!
slick Posted July 19, 2007 Report Posted July 19, 2007 Can't do that either, computer controlled also!
BXX Posted July 19, 2007 Report Posted July 19, 2007 how this get to carberators? all i asked which would be easier and fast a turbo3.1 or a 3.4 then tryning to do a custom turbo and im done arguing about the obd2 as yes i had a tunner system its a waste i have seen better response out of the ecm then the obd2 system Ummm, are you a grade school dropout??? Because you suck at English... And anything that takes intelligence..
slick Posted July 19, 2007 Report Posted July 19, 2007 Alright guys, this has gone on enough. timestalker, do as you please with your vehicle. It's your vehicle, it's your money. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask. But, if your not gonna deal with anything computer controlled, you may want to get a different vehicle. Any sort of inspection you will fail, because your car is supposed to be computer controlled.
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