GTP_MuNkYs Suspension Upgrade Thread *Update Pg 13, New struts and sleeves*

[CSI_MuNkY]

Thanx Jay, was kinda hoping you would post up cause I was certain you had the bar already.

 

We eventually did get the outer bar to bolt up, we did exactly what you said you did.

 

We also already cut the excess threads off that center bolt.

 

My main concern was that lip and the brake line. In hindsight the brake line on my car should likely be replaced anyways, and maybe even relocated, its mounted to the top of the sub frame, what genius designed that?

 

Do you have any pictures of where you drilled the elongated holes into the frame? just for reference.

 

Mach 5

We thought about mounting them that way but to reuse part of the stock mount in my case would be pointless. The stock mount is rubber, all the bushings I have for the new one are made from poly. Not to mention my stock mount was rusted beyond belief. I'm hoping that the new way has less flex to it, I figure whats the point in nearly doubling the size of your sway bar if your going to let it move around like that.

 

Jamie

[Mach 5]

Im glad everything is working out for you. I went this way because it was less hassel and it only cost me about $2 at Lowes to make those brackets. As for the bushings, Its not something I really noticied performance wise. The car handles like its on rails and its not spongy or any less responsive because of it... maybe because the rest are poly. I do drive my car hard and my friends can prove it so since I have fun with my setup, I hope you are happy with yours too. Just remember, these cars are the perfect sleepers, as they are relatively fast and handling is great. Nobody expects one to 3 wheel a turn and still handle well(just compare to a Lancer- does the same thing).

 

 

Good Luck- keep us informed!

 

 

Jarek

[CSI_MuNkY]

Its funny that you say they are the perfect sleeper, my brother swears up and down he will hand my ass to me in his 93 Mazda MX6 (2.5LDOHC v6 w/ 5spd) and yet he refuses to race me... one day, lol

 

Jamie

[Mach 5]

Just remember, even if his car is faster, you'll still out handle him, hence the perfect sleeper.

 

 

Jarek

[CSI_MuNkY]

Just remember, even if his car is faster, you'll still out handle him, hence the perfect sleeper.

 

 

Jarek

 

Yeah, and I would much rather find out his car is faster on the track rather than sitting around having a debate about it.

 

Jamie

[19Cutlass94]

Thanx Jay, was kinda hoping you would post up cause I was certain you had the bar already.

 

We eventually did get the outer bar to bolt up, we did exactly what you said you did.

 

We also already cut the excess threads off that center bolt.

 

My main concern was that lip and the brake line. In hindsight the brake line on my car should likely be replaced anyways, and maybe even relocated, its mounted to the top of the sub frame, what genius designed that?

 

Do you have any pictures of where you drilled the elongated holes into the frame? just for reference.

 

Mach 5

We thought about mounting them that way but to reuse part of the stock mount in my case would be pointless. The stock mount is rubber, all the bushings I have for the new one are made from poly. Not to mention my stock mount was rusted beyond belief. I'm hoping that the new way has less flex to it, I figure whats the point in nearly doubling the size of your sway bar if your going to let it move around like that.

 

Jamie

 

I can check to see if I do have any pictures, but this is how I did it...

 

I took the hangers, and bolted them to the sway bar. I pushed the sway bar up towards the car till the hangers hit the body. The hangers are suppose to be on those 'frame rails' so I did the best I could to center them. While holding the bar up so that the hangers are hitting those rails, I took a sharpie and marked the two holes on each 'frame rail' You have to use a 3/8" drill bit when your drilling the holes. Drilling them isnt a problem, its elongating them. This is the time where you need patience. And you deff gotta use an electric drill cause the metal there is atleast 3/8" thick. If I did have any picture of it, it would be on my cardomain ( http://www.cardomain.com/ride/803598/7 )

[CSI_MuNkY]

So heres a problem, now we have major binding issues! GRRR!

 

On both sides the sway bar is hitting the inner fender area, heres a pic

I know I have heard of this before, but I have no idea what to do about it. I thought about just cutting or grinding it away, but how far up should I go with that? Does the strut have to come back out to do it?

 

Jamie

[19Cutlass94]

You can leave everything in place. I took it back about 2" then went straight down. Start your cut where the inner fender well is straight, right before it goes down. Take that straight across about 2" then go straight down. Its more than enough to clear the bar. Dont worry Ive had the same exact problems your having when I was doing mine

 

Cutoff wheel or plasma cutter will do this the best.

[AWeb80]

 

Cutoff wheel or plasma cutter will do this the best.

 

yep!

 

I cut my inner fender too...nothing hurt and helped alot w/ space.

[CSI_MuNkY]

Well we made it work!! and we didn't cut into the car at all!

When I told me dad that the solution was to cut into the car he cringed real bad. When I came in to make my last post he found a new solution.

Years ago he attempted to make his own leaf spring shackles for the Nova, this failed, but left him with the plates we modified to work for me.

Each of these plates is 3/8" thick steal. We drilled out the holes to fit the studs on my struts and then notched the plates to allow for the ABS sensor. Here is what we came up with, and how it attaches to the strut...

 

This moved the bar 3/8" forward, which was enough to get rid of the binding between the bar and the body and strut. However now it was binding with the bolts on the center of the sub frame when it was raised into place. So now we modified the inner mounts. The spacer provided in the kit is 7/8ths of an inch long, the new spacer we made is 1.5" long. The modified spacer is on the left...

 

This lowered the center of the bar enough to clear the subframe. All that was left was to make the now moved inner mounts to clear the lateral links, to do that we just cut 1/4" off the one side of the mount, this turned out to be unnecessary, but oh well, its done.

 

But now it fits!!

Tomorrows tasks include;

-go find new front trailing arm bolts (we have temporary cheap bolts holding them in place now)

-drill the holes to mount the sway bar to the frame

-reassemble and torque everything in the back end together

-reinstall exhaust system

-mount my AWEB bar

-set ride height

 

 

Gonna be another loooooong ass day!

 

Jamie

[GOT2B GM]

ingenuity at its best......good work Jamie

[CSI_MuNkY]

I got an e-mail back from Lee at Held Motorsports, he said the seating arrangement on the fronts is normal. They have coil overs for other cars which have even less contact area and have yet to have any problems with the sleeve being damaged.

Regardless I will be keeping an eye on it.

Well, its damn near 3am, I gotta get up in, ohhh, 5 hours to get back to work, lol bed time

 

Jamie

[mra32]

Did you ever find out if those extra sleeves for the rears were meant to act as spacers?

 

and

 

What is that white plastic stuff? Is it particularly hard? I'd be interested in finding out what specific material its made of.

 

 

I've been watching your thread closely and I cant wait to see what you think about it all when you get it all done. I'd be especially interested in what you think of the spring rate and if there are any clunking noises.

[CSI_MuNkY]

Did you ever find out if those extra sleeves for the rears were meant to act as spacers?

 

Yeah they are spacers for the rear, the go on before the 5" sleeve

 

What is that white plastic stuff? Is it particularly hard? I'd be interested in finding out what specific material its made of.

 

I couldn't even tell you what kind of plastic it is. It is quite hard and the whole thing appears to of been machined out of one solid block. A part of me wants to say it might be an acrylic... when I go back to work I could get one of my set up guys or even my boss to look at them. I work in a plastics factory, theres a good chance someone will be able to identify the material.

 

I've been watching your thread closely and I cant wait to see what you think about it all when you get it all done. I'd be especially interested in what you think of the spring rate and if there are any clunking noises.

 

My dad thinks the spring rate in the back is going to be the part I end up coming back to change, lol. He thinks the back end of the car will bounce all over the place, especially with the bigger sway bar.

 

But I will keep you posted, it should be done today but I won't really be able to test the car for at least a couple days. It goes in to get the fuse problem fixed at 8 am tomorrow, and who knows how long that will take. Then after that I have to take it for an alignment.

 

Jamie

[CSI_MuNkY]

HOLY SHIT!

So I got my car back! They couldn't find the fuse problem, it won't blow now

They found out that the fuse blowing was for the fuel system and the cooling fans. The went over every wire from end to end and couldn't find any kinks or shorts. They got an ammeter on it and found nothing.

Now, I drive it, I drive the snot outta it, and the fuse is fine

 

back to the HOLY SHIT!

 

My car is on rails!!! OMG! I just took it our for a quick spin, swerving all over the road, accelerating hard.

 

She grips the road like no other car I've ever driven

Acceleration is improved, and thats a seat of the pants dyno. It just feels like its getting up and going faster. I figure with less easy flex in the suspension the power is getting to the pavement better. But, all that being said we will see how it acts once the springs are broken in.

 

My father and I are going to a cruise night tonight, so I don't have time to play with ride height, I will be doing that tomorrow for sure though. I will be posting some pics of that for sure.

 

Jamie

[19Cutlass94]

Nice!!!!! good to hear everything worked out for ya! pics are a must though.

 

and I gotta ask, when take a corner hard, and very fast, do you feel the inside rear wheel come off the ground? I can when i do this, just wondering if anyone else was doing the 3-wheeled turns

[pwmin]

sweet! i hope to get the bmr kit some day.

[CSI_MuNkY]

Nice!!!!! good to hear everything worked out for ya! pics are a must though.

 

and I gotta ask, when take a corner hard, and very fast, do you feel the inside rear wheel come off the ground? I can when i do this, just wondering if anyone else was doing the 3-wheeled turns

 

Dunno...I'll have to try that though!

 

sweet! i hope to get the bmr kit some day.

 

Well, I can't speak for the BMR kits, but the Held coil overs, lateral links, and trailing arms are seeming worth every penny. Honestly I can't see a difference between the BMR arms and the Held arms, with the exception that the Held arms are WAY less expensive. On both websites the arms pictured are adjustable, but that could be a generic pic, I'm pretty sure that the ones you would get for any first Gen w-body would be non adjustable. The alignment adjustments are built into the sub frame. If the BMR ones are not adjustable, the only other difference is that I had to buy my own grease fittings, but at $6 for 20 grease fittings (you only need 12 but they come in packs of 10) I can't see the point in going BMR and paying sooo much more when the only for sure difference is included grease fittings.

 

Jamie

[AWeb80]

Nice!!!!! good to hear everything worked out for ya! pics are a must though.

 

and I gotta ask, when take a corner hard, and very fast, do you feel the inside rear wheel come off the ground? I can when i do this, just wondering if anyone else was doing the 3-wheeled turns

 

i've got auto x pics to prove mine does...my car is sooo stiff.

[pwmin]

what would i need adjustable ones for on the rear anyway? im pretty sure with bmr, you buy the 2nd gen ones, so they would be adjustabe, whereas HMS, you can get gen 1 or gen 2.

[19Cutlass94]

BMR only has them for the Gen 2 that I know of. and they are adjustable.

 

Nice!!!!! good to hear everything worked out for ya! pics are a must though.

 

and I gotta ask, when take a corner hard, and very fast, do you feel the inside rear wheel come off the ground? I can when i do this, just wondering if anyone else was doing the 3-wheeled turns

 

i've got auto x pics to prove mine does...my car is sooo stiff.

 

sweet! send some this way! and yeah it corners great! but if I jack up one side of the car, the tire will drop about 6" ( if that ) then thats it

[CSI_MuNkY]

what would i need adjustable ones for on the rear anyway? im pretty sure with bmr, you buy the 2nd gen ones, so they would be adjustabe, whereas HMS, you can get gen 1 or gen 2.

 

Yeah, but what I'm saying is if they are the same thing between the 2 companies, why pay more to go with the BMR ones? I'm pretty sure the adjustable ones are for 2nd gens as well The BMR lateral links are $70 more per set, and to get the whole set of 6 arms their price is $170 more than the package price through Held.

 

Nice!!!!! good to hear everything worked out for ya! pics are a must though.

 

and I gotta ask, when take a corner hard, and very fast, do you feel the inside rear wheel come off the ground? I can when i do this, just wondering if anyone else was doing the 3-wheeled turns

 

i've got auto x pics to prove mine does...my car is sooo stiff.

 

I don't think I'll be getting pics like that any time soon. Its not too often I hear of an auto x in my area.

 

Jamie

[19Cutlass94]

FYI the Gen 2 lateral links are the same length as the Gen 1. I gotta say I love my BMR trailing arms though!

[CSI_MuNkY]

When I bought mine Lee said there were 2 different lengths of lateral links, he wasn't sure what cars they came on but there is about an inch difference. At first I thought the longer ones were for B4U cars, but I thought the difference in width was taken up by wider tires. Now that I look back though, I have B4U and mine are the shorter style. Here is the quote from Lee's e-mail explaining the 2 different lengths.

 

I am working on a run of rear arms. Could you measure for me the length of the rear arms, and if the links that go from the spindle to the center of the car are rectangle tube or a stamping. I want to be sure that I send you the correct arms. Measure the arms from the center of the mounting bolt to the center of the other mounting bolt on the same arm. Do this for the front and rear arms. If you have the rectangle arms they will be; 22 1/4" for the leading arm (front side of the cradle) and 23 3/4" for the trailing arm. If you have the stamped arm; they will be 22 13/16" for the leading arm and 24 1/4" for the trailing arm. I do not need the length for the arms that goes forward from the spindle. They are the same for both versions.

 

Maybe the longer ones are from Second gens?

 

Jamie

[Mach 5]

Glad its going good.

 

As for the 3 wheeler, you're not the only one one 3. Neither is Aweb. If you watch his videos, you can see the car going on 3. Mine bounces like crazy sometimes.

 

Maybe those arms are from the newer models.