slick Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 I know the port size in the lower intake plenum limits how much air flow that goes into the engine, but has anyone ever hooked up a dual throttle body deal onto there engine, or just any engine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robby1870 Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 Man, on our motor, that would be VERY hard, have to combine Throttle cable somehow, IACs and TPSs for both, tranny kick downs for each, cruise control for each. Not to mention a CUSTOM plenum. A lot of work. BUT, it would be EXTREMELY badass if one could be thought up Robby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted June 23, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 Yeah, that is what I was thinking. Maybe i'll pick myself up another 3100 upper plenum and fool around with it EDIT: I was thinking for the sensors, you could just splice the current wires, and wire another up. The throttle linkage actually wouldn't be too hard, cruise control still might be possible, but just use it on one tb, but when you give it gas, both open? Still things to figure out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantomFE3 Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 plug up the side intake part, stick 2 throttle bodies on top and just run the lines paralell to each other on the throttle bodies, get a hood to fit, simple! it will just take some tinkering and cutting and shit, it can be done, oh yes, it can be done.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robby1870 Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 Yeah, that is what I was thinking. Maybe i'll pick myself up another 3100 upper plenum and fool around with it EDIT: I was thinking for the sensors, you could just splice the current wires, and wire another up. The throttle linkage actually wouldn't be too hard, cruise control still might be possible, but just use it on one tb, but when you give it gas, both open? Still things to figure out. Good idea!! Like a quadra-jet carbuerator (or most any carb)!! Have one TB for say less than 1/3 Throttle, then #2 opens after that. That would be badass. And spicing the sensors is a good idea. OR, what about just using the sensors on your low rpm TB?? Just have #2 as extra. The sensors on the TB dont care HOW MUCH air is coming in?? Robby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted June 23, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 I wouldn't be sure on how to set up something like that, unless maybe i made the cables different length's? Meaning, the one would open as usual, and the other would open at a later time because I would set the cable to open #2 later? Not sure if that would work. From the beginning, all I thought about wiring was splicing, which will work. The sensors on the TB dont care HOW MUCH air is coming in?? Not sure what you mean by this, but i know that you could help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robby1870 Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 yeah, the different lenght cables would work great What I meant by that was, you could prolly just keep the sensors on your primary TB, and not even need them on the secondary. This is b/c the two sensors on the TB dont really measure cfm or air. And, since the secondary wouldnt be used at idle, I dont think the IAC would be needed on it. The TPS might not even be needed on the second either. If they are needed though, splicing would be the way to go Robby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted June 23, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 I think your right, because it would still be read by #1 tb. Now, what I was thinking was #2 be on the other side of the upper plenum?, not sure on this. Also, another problem i will probably face is my air/fuel mixture. Probably have to buy an aftermarket controller? What do you think the gains on this would be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted June 23, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 Another idea, I wonder what it would feel like when the #2 kicked in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazmatic Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 smoke alot of weed n drink alot o fbeer n ull do just fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robby1870 Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 I think your right, because it would still be read by #1 tb. Now, what I was thinking was #2 be on the other side of the upper plenum?, not sure on this. Also, another problem i will probably face is my air/fuel mixture. Probably have to buy an aftermarket controller? What do you think the gains on this would be? Yeah, aftermarket controller for sure!! I would think finging a way to mount on the other side work, like by the alternator. Along with the aftermarket controller you would probably need hotter plugs or the MSD DIS-4 system (it emits multiple sparks for 20 degrees of crank rotation), that way, you can be assured your not running rich, with the extra fuel in the combustion chamber. I think a port/polish on the heads, and intakes and 3 angle valve job would help out this project tremendously. You would probably see decent gains, but also less fuel economy when your foot's stuck to floor. Plus, I bet it would sound bad ass too. Is your 3100 MAF or MAP?? Just curious. Robby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92turboLE Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 hey robby, where did you get your front and rear STB's???? i have a 92 GP sedan and i cant find anywhere that has them. Nothing on the web (maybe im not looking in the right places) and none of the GM parts places sell the ones from the olds convertables that had them O.E. any help??? anbd about the dual TBs.... you might piss off the map sensor if you have double the amunt of air coming in.... the thing about having one open up at 1/3 and then the other kicking in... thats is kinda pointless if #1 never opens up all the way then #2 is just compensating.... unless that is of course that by the time your foot reaches 1/3 throttle, #1 is open all the way and 2 kicks in.... which now that i think about it is what you are talking about, so disregard all previous comments.... now that i feel like an idiot... one thing you could do.. have equal length cables, but put a spring on #1 cable so that once it reaches WOT then the the cable pulls on the spring and continues to open #2.... that way you wont have any slack on #2 when your foot is off the gas with uneven cables.... post some pics if you start to throw something together... i have some other ideas as well, maybe i will throw together a scetch or something and scan it and toss it up... - Justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92turboLE Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 sorry about the dumb shit stuff i was saying, havent had much sleep... after i thaught about it it all for a second, none of the shit i was saying makes sense... but as promised, here is the sketch that i was talking about... ithink adding it to the other side of the plenum would be tight, but what is the point.... i think all that would need be done is to bust out the dremmel and go to town on the upper, lower and heads. open those up a bit and you would be set.... just IMO - Justin P.S. and yes the drawing is to scale and accurate, thank you! hehehehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted June 23, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 Here is kinda my idea, not all that accurate, but an idea. I like your idea about relocating the linkage point on TB #1 to make it open faster. I've allready found a set of intake plenums on ebay for $30 for upper and lower, so i could do the port and polish while there off. As far as my drawing goes, i allready know improvements need to be made, but 92turbos drawing seems to be the most promissing so far. What do you guys think this will feel like when I do decide to really give it gas and #2 opens? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robby1870 Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 hey robby, where did you get your front and rear STB's???? i have a 92 GP sedan and i cant find anywhere that has them. Nothing on the web (maybe im not looking in the right places) and none of the GM parts places sell the ones from the olds convertables that had them O.E. Okay, for the front I got a bar from GMperformance parts. You have to look for an Impala I think. I actually got it off ebay, some guy was selling them. I have a couple of pics on my crappy website if you wanna check them out. The rear was adapted from a front strut tower brace off of a '92 Bonneville SSEi. The bonne brace is 3 parts, two pieces that attach to the towers, and the bar that connects them. So, for the pieces that attach to the towers, I put them up on my rear towers and saw that the big strut nut gets in the way. So, I had to remove a little of the piece. Aso, the two holes that are on the piece line up *almost* exactly on the bolts that stick up on either side of the big strut nut. I had to open the holes on the piece a little. Then, I did that for each side, and saw that the bar that comes with the Bonne brace is like 2.5in too short. So, I had to get a friend to get me some 1in hollow steel square tubing. The bonne bar is that exact same stuff, I just had to get a little longer bar. Oh, the pieces on the tower are secured by the two holes and bolts that stick up, and the bolts are 3/8 in. Hope that makes some sense Robby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robby1870 Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 sorry about the dumb shit stuff i was saying, havent had much sleep... after i thaught about it it all for a second, none of the shit i was saying makes sense... but as promised, here is the sketch that i was talking about... ithink adding it to the other side of the plenum would be tight, but what is the point.... i think all that would need be done is to bust out the dremmel and go to town on the upper, lower and heads. open those up a bit and you would be set.... just IMO - Justin I like that idea, it would be very sweet. I think it could be done, with some custom stuff of course. Man, I wish I was close to either one of you two, we could all meet up and do some brainstorming and test fitting. That would really help out to have the stuff there. Anyway, this does sound pretty cool, lets keep up the ideas. Robby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbtk2 Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 The second throttle body isn't going to do any good if the intake size is still the same size as a stock throttle body. (Notice in the picture by 92turboLE that both throttle bodies connect to a splitter that connects to the original throttle body hole with is the same size as the throttle bodies, so you have just eliminted the whole purpose because you still have that restriction) You would be better off porting the intake on the intake manifold and porting the throttle body to get more flow, it would be much easier and much less time consuming. The idea sounds badass, but it would take a lot of work, and in the long run I don't think it would add much power. You could only have the sensor in one of the intakes because it you have 2 readings it will confuse the computer, and only having it in one is going to make you run lean because it isn't going to know about the air coming into the other one, so it is just going to be a big hassel. To make it work, it would require designing a whole new intake manifold, and it wouldn't be worth it for the power gains on a N/A car (5 hp), but eveb on a Turbo car it still may not be worth it because I don't see how the gains could be more than 15 hp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted June 24, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 I have a question about using the spring on TB #1. Wouldn't that spring start to stretch before it pulled to open up the throttle? I think if i used the spring idea, I would just reverse what you said about how to hook up TB 1 and 2. Meaning, #1 would open as usual, but for #2 to be opened, you would have to give it gas, which is how I want it set up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted June 24, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 I'm gonna buy the plenums on ebay, so i can start on the project. I do like the idea about the Y-pipe type deal with the 2 TB's, but I was thinking of maybe making the area bigger where the air goes into the upper plenum, so when #2 is opened, it isn't as restricted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robby1870 Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 The second throttle body isn't going to do any good if the intake size is still the same size as a stock throttle body. (Notice in the picture by 92turboLE that both throttle bodies connect to a splitter that connects to the original throttle body hole with is the same size as the throttle bodies, so you have just eliminted the whole purpose because you still have that restriction) You would be better off porting the intake on the intake manifold and porting the throttle body to get more flow, it would be much easier and much less time consuming. The idea sounds badass, but it would take a lot of work, and in the long run I don't think it would add much power. You could only have the sensor in one of the intakes because it you have 2 readings it will confuse the computer, and only having it in one is going to make you run lean because it isn't going to know about the air coming into the other one, so it is just going to be a big hassel. To make it work, it would require designing a whole new intake manifold, and it wouldn't be worth it for the power gains on a N/A car (5 hp), but eveb on a Turbo car it still may not be worth it because I don't see how the gains could be more than 15 hp. yeah, we mentioned that extreme porting polishing of heads and intakes is the only way to see some good gains. And, doing this isnt going to make it run lean b/c the O2 helps control fuel delivery, it measures rich or lean (thats why you hook an air/fuel gauge to your O2). The only other sensor that contributes to fuel delievery is the MAP, and it uses engine vacuum to determine fuel delivery. Engine vacuum is going to be the same regardless of how my TBs you have. Guys, we could do two of the 62mm TBs that are available at http://www3.sympatico.ca/fjpeters/throttlebodies.htm I think this is a very cool idea and would be worth the time. Plus it would be something you could look at and say, hey, I made that, and no one else did Robby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted June 24, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 Those throttle bodies are nice, but I was just thinking of getting another stock sized throttle body for my project, as I'm not gonna get too crazy with this. But yeah, getting 2 of those would be sweet as hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robby1870 Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 Those throttle bodies are nice, but I was just thinking of getting another stock sized throttle body for my project, as I'm not gonna get too crazy with this. But yeah, getting 2 of those would be sweet as hell. Yeah, those were just wishful thinking. We could really open up the opening on the plenum, theres a lot of metal there. Although not too much. But there is enough room for say a 70mm?? opening. I Know my 3.1L plenum would have that much room. Make the y-pipe thing like stock 52mm on each end and combine to a 70mm opening leadin to the plenum. I think it will work Robby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted June 24, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 I agree, I think it will too. Once I get back home to where my car is Sat., I will have to take off the Tb on my 3100 to see how much I could get out of there, but im sure i can get 70mm. Then, as for the Y-Pipe, im thinking maybe aluminum piping or something like that, still not sure. We would have to make a custom plate for where the pipe connects to the plenum, but that shouldn't be too hard to do (atleast for me, i know a lot of people that work at machine shops). We will also have to custom make 2 other mounting brackets for the 2 throttle bodies because of the dead weight just hanging there, but again the design and machining shouldn't be too hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robby1870 Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 yeah, that stuff shouldnt be too hard. And, since you have access to a shop, we're good to go. I was just saying 70mm as a round number, you could prolly get 3in or about 76mm out of that if not more. Oh, we would need a huge ass intake tube for the TBs to draw air from. Or, run separate tubing for each, that would prolly be easier. Robby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted June 24, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 Running seperate tubes is what I was planning doing, 1 because I would think that just 1 giant tube may not fit and it may not flow enough air, and 2 it would look sweet to have 2 intake tubes Yeah, I could have the plates made up for your 3.1 if you want this done. I'm not sure exactly if the 3100 and the 3.1 plates could be the same or not, but if not, all you would have to do is just give a crap load of dimensions and drawings, and it can be made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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