Pullys...

[Z34-5speed]

Ok. I just got some extra cash and i was thinking about getting a new UD pully, if FFP has any left over. What i was wondering is what do you guys think an honest mechanics shop would charge to put the pully on if they are going to change the belt anyways? Thanks.

 

Kyle

[Supreme Cutlass]

Just do it yourself

[digitaloutsider]

X2. That's not worth taking it to a shop for..

[97loudcut]

My buddies Dad put mine on for $25

[Z34-5speed]

I don't have access to any decent tools, aside from your basic Craftsmen 127 piece mechanics set.

[digitaloutsider]

And all you'd need aside from that is a 3-jaw puller which you can rent from Autozone. Possibly a breaker bar. I'd put the money that you'd spend on a mechanic into a nice breaker bar and maybe a torque wrench.

[toms92gpse]

If ffp doesn't have them summit carries a jet ud Pulley. It is only listed under a Grand prix 3.4Dohc, Don't know why not the Cutty's or the lumina 3.4s since the are the same as far as i know. http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=JET%2D90124&view=32&N=700+4294924927+4294840048+400201 All thought the price is alot more then the ffp is.

[toms92gpse]

And all you'd need aside from that is a 3-jaw puller which you can rent from Autozone. Possibly a breaker bar. I'd put the money that you'd spend on a mechanic into a nice breaker bar and maybe a torque wrench.

You don't need a puller for the 3.4 Dohc, just the 3.1 and 3100 pulleys. The 3.4 Dohc pulley is held on by 3 small bolts and 1 large bolt in the middle.

[mfewtrail]

You don't need a puller for the 3.4 Dohc, just the 3.1 and 3100 pulleys. The 3.4 Dohc pulley is held on by 3 small bolts and 1 large bolt in the middle.

 

Yep. The bolts should be either 13mm or 15mm in size(I forget which).

[Z34-5speed]

You don't need a puller for the 3.4 Dohc, just the 3.1 and 3100 pulleys. The 3.4 Dohc pulley is held on by 3 small bolts and 1 large bolt in the middle.

 

Yep. The bolts should be either 13mm or 15mm in size(I forget which).

 

Sweet. I thought i would need an air compressor and a pully puller.

[Schurkey]

Clearly, I'm much too old. What do you expect to gain with this?

 

Smaller pulley on the crank means the water pump doesn't turn as fast. Engine may run warmer--or not--depending on the rest of the cooling system. Electric fan is likely to run more often, or longer, though.

 

Smaller pulley on the crank means the alternator doesn't turn as fast. Regulator keeps the voltage and amperage up to spec (within the limits of the alternator's ability to charge) but since the alternator--and therefore the alternator fan--doesn't turn as fast, the alternator has to work harder but the alternator gets less cooling.

 

PS is probably not affected too much. A/C is probably not affected too much above idle, but may not cool well at idle or at very low speed.

 

And for the privilege of working the alternator harder and hotter; and perhaps running the engine warmer--they want nearly $170 dollars + installation?

 

 

[digitaloutsider]

It's proven 10 WHP. On a 3.1... I think it's good mod for an LQ1.

 

There's no difference in cooling performance, and i think it was like 1 tenth of a volt as far as alternator output goes.

[Z34-5speed]

Ok, thanks. Now I just have to find one since FFP doesn't make them anymore.

[Euro]

Yes, when you do get one and go to install it, breaker bar FTMFW. Helps a lot. lol

[Schurkey]

It's proven 10 WHP.

Not likely.

 

Look at the belt; and the way it's wrapped around the pulleys. Accessories that take power to spin have lots of belt wrap, and they're driven from the ribbed side (more surface area) of the belt for extra "traction" so the belt doesn't slip.

 

1. That belt probably couldn't transfer 10 hp, let alone transfer so much more than 10 hp that changing the pulley ratio could result in it transferring 10 hp less.

 

2. The alternator is going to take just as much effort to turn with the small drive pulley as with the stocker. Sure, it turns slower--but the regulator will try to maintain the electrical output by increasing the field coil magnetism. So it turns slower, but with greater resistance. Net change = near zero.

 

3 The PS doesn't take much power to turn except at full lock, and you don't dyno test with the steering at full lock. So turning a bit slower isn't going to make much difference. Net change = small decrease in power used.

 

4. The water pump is driven by the back side (non-ribbed--less surface area) and with only the smallest amount of belt wrap (both mean very little belt "traction".) Not much power being used to turn the pump--so no big gains are possible. Net change = near zero.

 

5. The A/C compressor has LOTS of belt wrap, and is driven from the ribbed side. The A/C compressor is going to take some power to spin. But since it's a variable-displacement unit, turning it slower just means it adjusts to provide greater displacement. So, just like the alternator, it spins slower but with more resistance. Net change = small decrease in power used.

 

I'd like to see the dyno test AND the procedure used that "proves" 10 horsies at the wheels. First guess--they're lying. Second guess--someone reached in and shut off the A/C for the second test with the smaller drive pulley.

[digitaloutsider]

[me=Captain Danger Awesome]sighs[/me]

 

Let me see if I can find the dyno sheet from that run.

[Z34-5speed]

It has been proven before and i completely trust the claims of the company that sold them. So far you are the first person i know of that has called bs on FFP's UD pully.

[Euro]

It's proven 10 WHP.

Not likely.

 

IIRC FFP had a dyno sheet up on their site back when he was still selling them.

[toms92gpse]

Jet cares a ud pulley for the 3.4 Dohc but you have to look it up under Grand prix on Summit Racing's website, it doesn't show up under the z34 or the CS 3.4 dohc for some reason. It's about $160. Its a 25% ud i think, which is about the same as ffp, how ever i think that the jet is steel and not aluminum so it will be heavier. I've had the FFP one for about 70k and I love it.

[Supreme Cutlass]

Think of it this way, the stock pulley is designed to put the maximum amount of speed on the accessories because no engineer knows if the car is going to go to a place with desert heat and driven 24/7, or freezing cold. The underdrive pulley backs off the size until there's barely a difference in accesory performance but takes off 10hp (dyno proven numerous times) on the engine.

[Supreme Cutlass]

It's proven 10 WHP.

Not likely.

 

Look at the belt; and the way it's wrapped around the pulleys. Accessories that take power to spin have lots of belt wrap, and they're driven from the ribbed side (more surface area) of the belt for extra "traction" so the belt doesn't slip.

 

1. That belt probably couldn't transfer 10 hp, let alone transfer so much more than 10 hp that changing the pulley ratio could result in it transferring 10 hp less.

 

2. The alternator is going to take just as much effort to turn with the small drive pulley as with the stocker. Sure, it turns slower--but the regulator will try to maintain the electrical output by increasing the field coil magnetism. So it turns slower, but with greater resistance. Net change = near zero.

 

3 The PS doesn't take much power to turn except at full lock, and you don't dyno test with the steering at full lock. So turning a bit slower isn't going to make much difference. Net change = small decrease in power used.

 

4. The water pump is driven by the back side (non-ribbed--less surface area) and with only the smallest amount of belt wrap (both mean very little belt "traction".) Not much power being used to turn the pump--so no big gains are possible. Net change = near zero.

 

5. The A/C compressor has LOTS of belt wrap, and is driven from the ribbed side. The A/C compressor is going to take some power to spin. But since it's a variable-displacement unit, turning it slower just means it adjusts to provide greater displacement. So, just like the alternator, it spins slower but with more resistance. Net change = small decrease in power used.

 

I'd like to see the dyno test AND the procedure used that "proves" 10 horsies at the wheels. First guess--they're lying. Second guess--someone reached in and shut off the A/C for the second test with the smaller drive pulley.

Torque=radius x Force

Power=(Force) velocity

 

more speed and the same amount of force equals more power. Smaller radius and the same force equals less torque against the engine.

[BIGBULS]

I do NOT have a dyno sheet for an FFP LQ1 UDP.

 

 

 

However.............I DO have one for an LHO.

 

5whp at the 4000-4700rpm power "peak" (more like plateau), and ~10whp at the 6K rev limiter (although you have no business reving these engines past 5500 anyway).

 

 

 

I have also participated in an install of one on a friend's L82 (and later LA1) powered 96 Beretta (same pulley as the LHO).

 

Prior to the UDP install, a 50mph roll-on (him in 2nd gear, me in 3rd) of his then high 15 second Beretta vs my Sentra SE-R had him hold me to 65mph, and then me pulling ~ 3/4 car lengths by our 90mph shifts (2-3 for him, 3-4 for me).

 

AFTER the install, he would actually creep out slightly to 70ish mph........hold me to 80mph and I would only just be nosing by him at 90.

 

 

 

 

 

ALSO.........

 

Twindualcam.com/RAT used to have a UDP crank pulley for LQ1's, and they DID have a dyno chart of one.

 

5whp at the 5500ish power peak IIRC.

 

 

 

 

ALSO...... ( )

 

Are you then telling me that the hordes of OTHER aftermarket UDP's don't work?

 

I have a set of Unorthodox Racing pullies for my NX2000 (crank, water pump, alt, PS) and they are PROVEN (again on the dyno AND at the track) to make ~5whp.

 

 

I also have a Modern Performance UD crank pulley on the Neon, and I find it odd that on my stock airbox with K&N drop-in vs Iceman intake dyno, I made 125.XXwhp PRIOR to reattaching the CAI (although not quite 129whp after )..............125whp is 5-7whp MORE than a stock Neon 420A DOHC makes (and the only other mods are an MPP PCM and 55mm TB......there's *maybe* 2-3whp if I'm LUCKY). Weird.......

 

 

 

 

Shall I continue?