pwmin Posted March 25, 2007 Report Share Posted March 25, 2007 okay, so today i upgraded both the battery cables to 4ga and from the starter to alternator (i guess youd call it the big 5 ) anyway, after i got all that hooked up, my alternator wasnt charging. i looked underneath and no power after the fuse (i put in a 100A AFS inline fuseholder, http://www.streetwires.com/products/inLineFuseHold/AFSholders.cfm). the holder had melted (more than it already was, lol). why the hell would it melt? it was beside the pass. motor mount on top of the subframe away from high heat sources. also, what else can i use for this? i wish i could find some 4ga. fusible link instead of using an inline holder. do they make any that big? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted March 25, 2007 Report Share Posted March 25, 2007 Ground the alternatore out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puggsley456 Posted March 25, 2007 Report Share Posted March 25, 2007 Something is shorting out somewhere. recheck all of your connections. I myself have never done anything but the "Big 3" so I dont know what the other may have done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted March 25, 2007 Report Share Posted March 25, 2007 Ground the alternatore out? OK, I typed that when I was drunk. Anyways, it's a safe measure to leave the stock alternator wiring there, and then ADD ontop of the stock alternator wire your upgrade wire as well, just incase one fuse would blow. As for it melting, I could only think that there was too much current going through? I'd go through and recheck your connections, make sure they are nice and tight. Be sure to check your grounds, make sure your ground points are free of rust and paint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19Cutlass94 Posted March 25, 2007 Report Share Posted March 25, 2007 well if you have a 160A alt, and a 100A fuse from the alt to the battery, theres one thing. Like Slick said, you ADD to existing wire, NEVER replace. But something is pretty much shorting out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted March 25, 2007 Report Share Posted March 25, 2007 Yep, I do replace all my wires except for my alternator wire. That one I ADD to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19Cutlass94 Posted March 25, 2007 Report Share Posted March 25, 2007 I just added 4g wire to everything. I never took any of the stock wiring out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwmin Posted March 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2007 im a little confused. im not going to run 2 battery cables, so that eliminates 4 of the wires. so, youre saying i should run 2 wires from the starter to the alternator? def had to have gotten hot from too much current or whatever, but the old wire that was on there was and is fine. i think ima just leave that one on there since i dont have a stereo yet and its actually charging better than stock. ill have to see when i get my udp pulley if the charging voltage is low enough to worry about, but id still like to figure something out in the mean time so i know what to do if i need to upgrade it, like, what type of fuse should i use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19Cutlass94 Posted March 26, 2007 Report Share Posted March 26, 2007 Take out that wire from your battery to the starter. It does no good at all. Stock 8g wire is more than enough for that application. The only wires you need are the wires from the battery to ground, ground to chaisis. From the alt to the battery and the battery to the AUX. You run no wires from the starter to the alt. For you fuse, Id just got with an ANL fuse. Maybe 120amp or so, maybe a little higher because if your alt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwmin Posted March 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2007 i already made new battery cables, so i may as well keep them. so, the AFS should be fine? ill just have to get a new holder. i still have 100 and 125A AFS fuses, the holder is just toast. i had a hard time finding a sealed ANL holder that wasnt huge and expensive i just dont understand how an 8ga wire is fine, but a 4ga one would heat up. must not have had a good connection inside the fuse holder or something. i wasnt sure how many 3.4 guys have done this upgrade since its a pia to run a wire from the starter to the alt on atx cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19Cutlass94 Posted March 26, 2007 Report Share Posted March 26, 2007 The reason the 8g wire to the starter is fine is because it is not used every minute that the car is running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwmin Posted March 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2007 The reason the 8g wire to the starter is fine is because it is not used every minute that the car is running. yeah, i understand that, im wondering about the starter to alt wire, why that heated up w/ 4ga, but not 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted April 8, 2007 Report Share Posted April 8, 2007 whoa cutlass got something right!!!! yes be ANL about your wiring. you probably just got some brake cleaner on your fuse holder. that or any solvent will melt one of those in seconds!! if it is made out of acrylic clear stuff. get a kicker anl fuse holder(yes kicker made a good product) . fuck stock wiring, if you did it right, you would have to be a complete dumbass to stick the stock crap on there big 5 rulez!!1 The reason the 8g wire to the starter is fine is because it is not used every minute that the car is running. yeah, i understand that, im wondering about the starter to alt wire, why that heated up w/ 4ga, but not 8 you know there should be a factory size wire there with a fusible link off the starter side right? thats not part of the big 5. the big 5 is 1) the wire from the alt....to the amp. 2thru5) all the grounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwmin Posted April 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 okay, so why is one of the "Big 3" the battery to alternator wire? (just confused). i probably did get some brake cleaner on it, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19Cutlass94 Posted April 9, 2007 Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 okay, so why is one of the "Big 3" the battery to alternator wire? (just confused). i probably did get some brake cleaner on it, lol. The battery to alternator wire is the most important wire. Its what basically charges your battery. The bigger the wire that it is, the more current can flow to your battery. Its really the only power wire that you do in the 'Big 3'. As the list is: -Alternator to battery -Battery to ground -Ground to Chasis ground Thats the 'Big 3' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwmin Posted April 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 youre saying one thing and hes saying another. thats what im confused about. and i dont have a wire that goes directly from the batt to the alternator. it goes from the batt to the starter to the alt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19Cutlass94 Posted April 9, 2007 Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 Ill have to find the link to it, but there was a GOOD write up about the 'Big 3' There is no need for a bigger wire to go to the starter. Theres no reason even to have a wire going from the starter to the alternator. Why? Because you dont charge the starter. Theres not even a factory wire that goes from the starter to the alternator! And theres a reason why batteries have Cold Cranking Amps. If you dont know what Cold Cranking Amps is/are look it up! Your ampiflier wires are hooked up ( or should be ) directly to you battery. This is where you need the wire from the alternator to the battery. You amps have a current draw that will draw down the battery. This larger wire between the alternator and the battery help decrease this current draw by allowing the alternator to send ( if you will ) more current to the battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwmin Posted April 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2007 maybe im just not getting what youre saying, but there is no wire from the alternator directly to the battery on a 3.4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puggsley456 Posted April 10, 2007 Report Share Posted April 10, 2007 maybe im just not getting what youre saying, but there is no wire from the alternator directly to the battery on a 3.4 There isnt on most cars. They usually go from the alternator to a fuse panel or auxilliary post. Then to the battery. Never direct. So what they are trying to say is you have to add one that goes from the battery to the alternator. Adn leave the factory wiring be. Some reading material.... http://www.sounddomain.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/312025/page/1#Post312025 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwmin Posted April 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2007 it goes from the alternator to the starter to the battery. there is a fuseable link between the starter and alternator. im just going to quit posting on this does anyone that has a 3.4 have any input? i think you guys are just not familiar w/ how they are set up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted April 13, 2007 Report Share Posted April 13, 2007 all you need is a signal wire to the alt through the plug on the side of it that tells the alt the cars on and time to start charging. then the only other thing you need is a single (fat now if you are adding an amp) wire running to the aux post on back to the amp. the starter and battery already have their own leads from the aux post. but if your cap isnt giving enough reserve power you will need bigger battery cables too so you can draw and charge to the battery better. you need more reserve power, hence the need for a complete BIG 5 upgrade. I came up with the big 5 to shed light on the exact "big" cables needed for a W body car to run an amplifier. I did it because the big 3 is vague and incomplete. first step is always remove the factory charge wire and install a 2 or 0 gauge fatty right on the charge post of the alt and run it (wire loomed all the way of course) across the engine bay to the aux post. now you dont want any power leaking off any other directions like the starter or something because splitting it creates resistence and the battery/amp will not get a full 13-15 volt stream of power. you dont need to charge the starter anyway, GM just runs it all in a little loop down there to throw you off. but dont use that circuit to charge, use your own. make sence? not a big mystery to me, I know exactly how your car is set up. then just get your starter wires back the way they were with fusible links the way they were. look at another car if you have to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwmin Posted April 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2007 okay, i think i got it so, i need to get rid of the wire that goes from the battery to the starter and add one that runs from the alt to the charging post. i can leave the fused wire that goes from the starter to the alt. is all of that correct? do i need to fuse the wire from the post to the alt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted April 13, 2007 Report Share Posted April 13, 2007 getting there. but uhhh no. theres a couple incorrect things. well, I guess you could push start it. you still need a battery to starter wire because your battery turns the starter . read back, the one you shrink wrap the end of is(ring terminal) off the ALT (charge stud). clear? I dont have a fuse on the lead going to the aux post from the alt(but its not a good idea). you can if your worried about it. use a kicker anl style with a 150 amp fuse. that way you wont weld a chunk off your alt like I did one time. when the crappy ring terminal I had gave way from bad grounds. it just got too hot from resistence and melted off the end. That was years ago and have come a long way since then. but yea, a fuse is a good idea there. have it near the aux post. and another before it goes thru the firewall. Its just a good idea to do it because ANL fuses are low loss anyway. gotta pay the cost to be the boss, is what they say. I had $50 monster circuit breakers there and now I am upgrading to anl because circuit breakers supposedly wear out. plus anl are cheaper and have single wire termination for less voltage loss. you can leave all starter wires alone if they are hooked up right and wire loomed so they dont sit there and vibrate on the starter case and rub through the fuse jacket and short out on the starter(happened to me). just have 1 wire coming off the charge post on the alt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwmin Posted April 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2007 well, I guess you could push start it. you still need a battery to starter wire because your battery turns the starter . read back, the one you shrink wrap the end of is(ring terminal) off the ALT (charge stud). clear? that confused me when i thought about it again you just confused me. so, i should leave everything the way it is, but add a wire from the alt to the charge post w/ an in-line fuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted April 13, 2007 Report Share Posted April 13, 2007 so, i should leave everything the way it is, but add a wire from the alt to the charge post w/ an in-line fuse. You've finally got it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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