Fix it or part it? 91 International

[w-bodys_are_the_best]

So as most of you should already know, I have a 1991 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Interational. It has the LQ1 and the Getrag 284 5-speed transmission. It also has quad leather buckets with AQ9's in the front, Climate Control, HUD, and Power Moonroof. It is white with Maroon interior. I bought it last summer for $1,000 and wish I wouldn't have spent that much. The only thing I knew that was wrong with it when I bought it was that it had no power brakes, needed a hood, and the driver's AQ9 was ripped, other than that, It was pretty clean, not rust free though, and ran ok. I didn't really drive it much because of the brakes, It had brakes, but you had to damn near use both feet to stop, and had the braking distance of a fully loaded semi. After driving it a few times, I noticed it also needs a slave cylinder for the clutch. I found out the brake parts are discontinued, napa will rebuild them for almost $1200, rockauto.com will rebuild them for $500 or so. I was just going to throw a non ABS booster and master on there, but that's still going to cost a bit. I also noticed that underneath it is pretty rusty, you can't tell from the body panels much, but I don't even want to know what it would look like if I were to take the side skirts off. I think it was about the 5th time I got to drive it, I drove it to work (70 miles one way) and after work on the way home I noticed she was knocking pretty bad. It has a bad main or rod bearing. That was in July or August, It has sat outside in MN winter since then.

Today I got it to fire up, let it run about 10-15 min, and took this video: (5.6mb)

http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h72/zkelleybucket/International/?action=view&current=MOV01667.flv

 

I also have my 96 Odsmobile Cutlass Supreme Coupe, it's black, pretty basic, cloth seats, but it does have a power sunroof. I pretty much stole this car. It has a few problems, mostly little piddly things, but one big problem, the TCC was locking up in every gear exept 1st, and now the TCC is completely burnt up. The transmission shifts fine otherwise, just can't lock up now, but with all that burnt up clutch floating around in there, I don't think the transmission will last very long. I paid $500 for the 96. If I Absolutely had to, I'd get it rebuilt. There is a shop about 35 miles from here that is known for almost bulletproof rebuilds that will usually outlast the car, but they want between $1200-1400. It would be well worth it, but I don't have the money sitting around for it. The 3100 was very well taken care of as was the rest of the car. It was hit in the pass. side rear, but the trunklid and tail light housing were replaced. There is maybe a 3/4 inch gap between the pass tail light and trunk lid but the top lines up pretty good, you can't even barely see anything there. It would also be very easy to pull the metal behind there back out and fix it right. The rest of the body is flawless. It's a damn sharp car, I love the design of the 2 door Cutlass. This is the 4th one I've owned, and I don't see any black 96 2 doors around here. If you look closely in these pics you can see what I'm talking about with the trunk.

 

I wanted to put another 3.4 in the 91 and fix it up, drive it awhile, and probably sell it. I am beginning to actually sit down and figure out how much money it will cost, thinking maybe I should cut my losses, use the 284 parts on the 96, and part it out. I really would hate to chop up such a rare W body. It took me 3 years to find a 5-speed cutlass. It is rare, but all I wanted is a RELIABLE 5-speed cutlass. I don't think I'm going to want to deal with the issues the 3.4's have. Don't get me wrong, they are unlike any other motor, and are incredible to drive with the 5-speed when they are running good, but usually it takes alot of work to keep them running good.

 

What do you guys think, should I part it out, make the 96 a 5 speed, which I could do myself and would be cheap,

 

or should I get a 3.4 DOHC and not chop up the 91?

 

I don't have a lot of money at all, but I do have a decent garage, some tools, and a bit of knowledge, I also have quite a a few friends with a bit more knowledge than me that will be willing to help.

 

By the way here is my photbucket album of the 91 International, I just posted the link because I have a shitload of pics on there of it. If you want, you can go through and see what you think of the car.

http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h72/zkelleybucket/International/?start=all

[97loudcut]

That engine sounds like it knocking pretty bad. I choose numero 1!

[jeremy]

part it

[Euro]

part it

[J]

make the 96 a 5 speed. It'll be harder than you think. I'm thinking in 94 or 95 they stopped puttin in the provisions for the 5 speed

[Psych0matt]

man, if that intl wasnt rusty Id drive out and get it I love that car

[digitaloutsider]

Find another 3.4 car and throw the 284 in. FTW!

[5speedz34]

Find another 3.4 car and throw the 284 in. FTW!

 

Yeah, probably what I would do. It all depends on the rust situation.

[w-bodys_are_the_best]

I will get some pictures of underneath and the rust here soon, but it's kind of a mudpit out there right now. We had an inch of ice and over 30 inches of snow on top of it from the other weekend up until sunday, and it's been almost 50 degrees every day since then, grounds a bit soggy.

[Psych0matt]

if you sold the intl, how much would you sell it as-is?

[Crazy K]

make the 96 a 5 speed. It'll be harder than you think. I'm thinking in 94 or 95 they stopped puttin in the provisions for the 5 speed

to be precise.... when whatever model recieved the saginaw column, they lost the pedal provison

 

fix it!

[ns87]

If it was a convertible 5 speed, I'd say fix it. There is a great amount of parts to put into another Cutlass. Maybe look for another older car to do this or just sell the parts. Those international parts will go to good homes on here

[Andrew]

fix it. period. a rare car like that always deserves to be saved IMO. or sell it to someone on here who will save it. no chopping allowed mister!

 

you can get a good used 3.4 block from http://www.mantapart.com for $1500. click on 'chassis', then scroll down and click on 'misc'.

 

there has got to be a cheaper alternative for your brake situation. a local shop cant rebuild it for you? what about a prix setup?

 

 

[runt]

part it.

[pwmin]

sell it to someone who is going to fix it up. in all reality, it would be cheaper for me to part out my 91 but i want to save it. now that i know the engine is okay... at least mine doesnt have a shit-ton of rust then it would really suck

[jeremy]

crush it

[RJansen658]

I can't believe so many people are telling you to scrap it... you said it youself... 1 of 109...

 

Sometimes... parting out a car can be a good thing, if you really do part it out. The parts will help other people trying to restore thier own pride and joy.

 

And other times... people just strip the pieces THEY need and scrap the car.

 

If you get too many projects going it will kill your motivation... my opinion is that the car isnt all that rusty, the brakes can be coverted to a regular setup without TOO much work for a cheap price. Its 1 of 109, and saveable. Also, why swap a 284? A 282 would be better, since its gotta be a custom job either way, the 96' has no provisions for the clutch pedal. I've seen 282's on the forum for $300 before. I just don't think parting the car is really worth a 284... when 282's are cheap.

 

If you do part it, I'd keep the entire cradle w/ drivetrain, and all the clutch parts. Then wait for another LQ1, and then swap the cradle into the 96' with the new LQ1. If you are going for perofrmance, might as well go as fas as you can on stock parts...

[w-bodys_are_the_best]

make the 96 a 5 speed. It'll be harder than you think. I'm thinking in 94 or 95 they stopped puttin in the provisions for the 5 speed

to be precise.... when whatever model recieved the saginaw column, they lost the pedal provison

 

fix it!

Were the grand prix's different, When posting about a J-282 fitting into a W, I was given this link. http://www.brian89gp.com/ The grand prix on this site looks to be a 95 or 96, they changed the prix's in 95 along with the cutlass interior's right? Did he do a custom job, or are the prix's different? What exactly is the saginaw column? Is that the one with the newer leather wrapped wheel, and an airbag in the wheel? My 94 had that column if that's what you're talking about, but if I remember right, the 93's had the older style. Might have found another 284 in MN too, so I might fix both. I was looking at the International yesterday, started it and moved it out of the mud and snow, had it sitting in front of the garage taking pics, and after 15 or 20 min. it died, and would not start. It did it last time I drove it to LeRoy from Riceville(10 miles). It turns over a little bit and stops, I think maybe the bearing that is bad expands, and keeps the engine from turning over more than one revolution. I am going out there today, it will more than likely fire right up, if my jump-box isn't too dead now. I am going to get it in my garage throw it up on stands and take some pics. By the way I'd like to save both cars, so hopefully I can get this other 284, that a member is selling in MN.

 

here are som pics I took of it today:

http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h72/zkelleybucket/3-17-07%20Pics/?start=all

 

[Turbo231]

Part it/Sell it.

 

I too had a M&M w-body. Hard on the outside and soft in the middle. This car will never stop costing you money and you'll never get your money out of it since with your purchase price, you are already in too deep.

 

Keep the car and fix it? As yourself this question. Would you pay $400 for this car right now if you saw it beside the road? If not, then sell it. (I picked $400 because that sounds reasonable, but if you think it can sell for more, use that price.)

 

You need to forget how much money you have currently spent on the car...that's in the past, it's over. You need to ask yourself, if you didn't own the car, what you would pay for it. Would you buy a car off the street, fix the engine, and then sell it for profit? I personally wouldn't, but maybe you would. If you say no, then dump the car.

 

As for mixing the two cars, are you in the position to lose both cars for an extended period of time? Your current olds seems great...but both cars will die and only one will be reborn, although nice, but once again, you will be working out problems with this new car until you find out the 5 speed you pulled out of the cutlass and put in your 96 was more worn then you figured...now you're stuck with a dead 91, sick 96, and no transportation.

 

I mean, I am all about restoring cars, fixing them, and loving them...but not when it gets in the way of a normal life. Cover the basics...reliable transportation first, money in the bank for emergencies second, have fun with the rest. If you can't do the first two steps, then trying to work on a POS car is not in your best interest.

 

And yes, for those of you playing the home game, there is a tint of Dave Ramsey in there.

[w-bodys_are_the_best]

Well I got some pictures of the rust and some other shit underneath, I don't think it's as bad as I thought it would be. The worst area is right behind the rear pass. wheel well where it meets the plastic. I took the black plastic "sheild piece" out and got some shots behind that area (pics down below). The mufflers are rotted all to hell, but the rest of the exhaust seems to be in pretty damn good shape. I can see it has never been in any type of accident, because all the body part/panels still have the original "Genuine GM part" sticker with the VIN printed on it, and the part#. IMO the rust isn't real bad as I thought it would be, but you guys can take a look at the pictures on my photobucket album and let me know what you think:

http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h72/zkelleybucket/Rustypics/?start=all

 

If anyone has unlimited Carfax or Autocheck, could you please run my VIN and confirm the history of the car?

VIN=1G3WR14X3MD374517

 

I think I figured out why the engine is knocking, you can't tell that great from the pictures I took, but the oil pan is dented in pretty bad, not 100% sure, but maybe it's blocking off the oil pickup, and caused oil starvation. The scratched up part is completely flat, and you can tell it's not supposed to be.

 

Here are the pics of the area behind the R-R wheel well:

[FordBoy]

I say fix it the only time i would part out a car is it it was in a wreck or had a lot of damage done to the car in some way.Im sure the car has some value to it in your mind right. Its hard to let your baby go. But watching other people tear it apart. That is the worset thing that you can do do yourself.

Fix it or sell it me so i can fix it

[Psych0matt]

it doesnt look too bad at all. rusty, yes, but it doesnt look like anything is on the verge of breaking of falling apart because of it. I say try and fix it, but if not maybe sell it for as much as you can get out of it.

[digitaloutsider]

Take off one of the positive ventilation grates (located in either doorjamb) and see what's in there.

[Stevo]

Dont think the other car is immaculate. It can have rust in spots you dont see as well. If you like the car you would fix it up. It's worth it.

[FordBoy]

\ It's worth it.

x2