97CuttySupSL Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 hey guys..currently im runnin 2 kicker comp 12s in a dual sealed box..im thinkin about goin with jus a single sub and box..the reason i would do this is just because im using a monochannel amp..my ? is..what is better.. a sealed single box or a vented one.. and another ? i got is 12 or a 15? thanks guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19Cutlass94 Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 Vented +1 15 will give you more bass than a 12 just due to the cone area = more airmovement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 like mentioned a 15 will be deeper, but a 12 will be more accurate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puggsley456 Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 hey guys..currently im runnin 2 kicker comp 12s in a dual sealed box..im thinkin about goin with jus a single sub and box..the reason i would do this is just because im using a monochannel amp..my ? is..what is better.. a sealed single box or a vented one.. and another ? i got is 12 or a 15? thanks guys Before I start making recomendations.....what is the amp you are using? And are the subs's dual 4 ohm or dual 2? like mentioned a 15 will be deeper, but a 12 will be more accurate... That is an absolute myth. Any good qualty 15 will play just as acurate as its 12" counterpart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcjredline Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 That is an absolute myth. Any good qualty 15 will play just as acurate as its 12" counterpart. Not absolute. The surface area being so much bigger is going to make for less control. Maybe not such a big diff with a 12 and a 15 but a 15 to a 10 it is a big difference. We are talking with EVERYTHING else being even power, box Q, sub brand the 10 will be quicker to respond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 quicker meaning the Hz aka frequency? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97CuttySupSL Posted January 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 im runnin a 1000 watt sony xplod monochannel... and i was looking at the kicker l7s in a vented box Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19Cutlass94 Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 That is an absolute myth. Any good qualty 15 will play just as acurate as its 12" counterpart. Not absolute. The surface area being so much bigger is going to make for less control. Maybe not such a big diff with a 12 and a 15 but a 15 to a 10 it is a big difference. We are talking with EVERYTHING else being even power, box Q, sub brand the 10 will be quicker to respond. Once again, false. Read up on these things and youll see that all of this is a myth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97CuttySupSL Posted January 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 That is an absolute myth. Any good qualty 15 will play just as acurate as its 12" counterpart. Not absolute. The surface area being so much bigger is going to make for less control. Maybe not such a big diff with a 12 and a 15 but a 15 to a 10 it is a big difference. We are talking with EVERYTHING else being even power, box Q, sub brand the 10 will be quicker to respond. Once again, false. Read up on these things and youll see that all of this is a myth. mhhm well maybe if this is true..ill jus got with the 12..and save money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puggsley456 Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 The idea that a 10" sub will preform more acurately than a 12" or 15" of the same kind is a false statement to base a subwoofer buying decision on. There are many factors that go into a subwoofers ability to play tight or acurate. A good portion of this is determined by a drivers motor strenght or BL. And the overall dampening ability of the subwoofers suspension. Now if you take any 10" sub and compare the TS perameters of it to the TS perameters to a same model 15" more often than not you will notice that none of the specs match. So based on this it is easy to assume that the same mechanical parts are not always used between like model drivers in the same subwoofer lines. Now that being said .....How can anyone with a good understanding of how a subwoofer is designed and built come to the conclussion that a 10" subwoofer which has a different design and different mechanical components and limits be "more acurate" than a 15" subwoofer? I have personally witnessed a bunch of 10" and 12" drivers that didnt play very acurate at all. Let me phrase this so everyone understands.....Never buy a subwoofer based on size alone!.....assuming no space restrictions. Compare and get reviews to actually see what size and model more acurately preforms to the needs you require of it. There is no definetive answer to this question, all sound quality is subjective to the users tastes. A good sounding sub stage is 10% subwoofer and 90% install! Here is another good read on this topic for anyone interested... http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51120&page=2&highlight=subwoofer+myth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97CuttySupSL Posted January 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 alright guys thanks for the info..ill probbly just go with a 12in l7..the square ones..ive heard good stuff about it..so yea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcjredline Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 That is an absolute myth. Any good qualty 15 will play just as acurate as its 12" counterpart. Not absolute. The surface area being so much bigger is going to make for less control. Maybe not such a big diff with a 12 and a 15 but a 15 to a 10 it is a big difference. We are talking with EVERYTHING else being even power, box Q, sub brand the 10 will be quicker to respond. Once again, false. Read up on these things and youll see that all of this is a myth. Maybe I should just go back to RITOP and tell them what they teach is WRONG . I dont know maybe the GOD FATHER of car audio (Rich Inferera) isnt all hes cracked up to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19Cutlass94 Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 did you even read this? http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51120&page=2&highlight=subwoofer+myth Heres a quote for you: Quote:Originally Posted by B_Master_Flash Just out of curiousity, what are you basing this on? experience? numbers? I'm finding it hard to believe that a simmilarly constructed 18" and 6.5" woofer will have Exactly the same responsiveness. It all depends on the coil and the motor. Size has nothing to do with the speed with which the coil moves. The inductance of the coil has everything to do with how fast it responds. Inductance is the measure of a coil of wire's resistance to a change in current. The higher the number the slower the response. As I said it not just that simple but assuming that the motor is strong enough to move the cone and the cone is string enough to move the air without deforming then it is that simple. Quote: Even if the cone weight isn't the problem, the bigger the cone, the more air it has to move, which means more resistance, which means less responsive. Magnetism is funny in that as long as the power is sufficient to move what you want to move, it moves. Let's get into the physics of it all. F=ma. The force (F) we have to work with is the Bl of the motor and the current going through the turns of wire in the magnetic gap of the motor. Mass is basically a constant (enclosure loading plays a small part in a sealed enclosure and a larger part in a vented enclosure especially at high excusion levels but starting at rest it is effectively zero for both). For a given mass, Bl and current, we know what the acceleration is going to be. Take the derivative of the above with respect to time. Because we are working with AC, F is constantly changing with changes in current (Bl is constant and we will assume that the coil remains in the gap). Mass is not changing with time. Acceleration must change at the same rate as the current. At 60hz, the current fully cycles once every 1/60 of a second. It does this whether it is running through the coil of a 6.5 or an 18. What is the difference? If the voicecoil inductance of the two speakers is the same, there is no difference. Inductance is the resistance to changing current, remember. Let's look at an example. Assume that two speakers have exactly the same motor and voicecoil. In fact the only difference between the two is the moving mass (think larger speaker, different enclosure, what-have-you). We feed them the same signal. Will you hear a difference? The rate of change of current is the same. The rate of change of acceleration is the same. The magnitude of the acceleration is less, but the rate of change is the same. The lighter speaker will exhibit greater excursion because of the greater acceleration, but the transient response will be identical because of the same rate of change of acceleration. Quote: Note, there is a difference between saying "it is possible to make an 18 with the responsiveness of a 6.5" and "size has 0% to do with speaker response". Size has zero to do with speaker response all other things being equal. This seems hard to swallow because you are thinking instantaneously. Transient response is a function of time. It is harder to move a larger cone, but that is not the measure of transient response. Transient response is an electrical function, not a mechanical one. All other things are not usually equal, that's the rub and that makes it even harder to grasp. To get a coil with enough power to move a larger cone with authority and able to acheive high excursion levels, the coil usually ends up with a higher inductance compared to a smaller, lighter driver. The newer motor designs being used on modern subs overcome this hinderance by using a more powerful motor rather than a larger coil as used to be the case. This keeps the inductance low and allows for the transient response of a smaller driver using a conventional motor design. Quote: Just to take a step back and look at everything logically, Tweeters are by far, the most responsive part of the stereo system, and they are by far the smallest. Is that just a coinsidence? By your logic, couldn't we make the tweeter 10" in diameter and have it be incredibly loud w/o loosing any speaker response? They are the smallest, but that has nothing to do with moving mass. It has everything to due with piston breakup at high frequencies. As you start to vibrate a large diaphram at really high frequecies, the forces involved with starting and stopping the diaphram cause the diaphram to start to ditort and lose its shape. If you could make an infinitely stiff diaphram, then you could make a tweeter as large as you wanted. Of course the other problem you run into is the whole inductance thing again. Inductors are the main component in passive low pass filters. Whatever frequency the inductance of the voicecoil equates to, the driver will begin to roll off above that frequency, thus limiting its high frequency capability. Tweeters are small because the small size and mass 1) will not destroy itself by vibrating at high frequencies and 2) because the coil required to move them is sufficiently small that it has a low enough inductance to not limit its capabilities within the audible spectrum of sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcjredline Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 And WHO are these people? I gave you a Name that other people can recognize and look up accomplishments of. Do what you want and think what you do I really am not going to argue this with you over and over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 never heard of this "godfather" who is he? there is a little truth to the "quickness to respond" aspect if you mean the actual frequency response of a speaker cone and why a certain diameter is used for a designated frequency range. smaller cone surfaces have less mass to travel efficiently in the higher tones. bigger subs cant go back and forth more than a thousand times a second required to reproduce mid bass to high bass range. wouldnt use a 10 to do this in a car, I would use stereo 6.5s. follow me?? then I would get a high excursion woofer to tackle the lows that you can only feel. and I only require 1 sub for this task since they come in all shapes and sizes. just need excursion, and can make it sound as big as I want regardless of diameter. so with the most desirable subs lies its ability to as you might put it "slower to respond". BTW yes, thats a good read. worth reading for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99montez34 Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 wait buddy is your amp 1000 watts rms or is that "max" power? Anyways, if you go with one twelve your most likely going to need the dual 4 ohm.... if the amp is 2 ohm stable.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19Cutlass94 Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 dual 4ohm subs, will give you a 1ohm load on the amp..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcjredline Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 http://www.cartunes.com/ Here. He was called that by CA&E back in 1996. He helped ADS invent and build the first component speakers and pretty much helped them with every product they have ever designed. ADS uses an i in theyre component part numbers for his last name Inferrera. Maybe do a search. In 1992 or 3 he built a 91 CRX went to 1 IASCA show the car did so good he was invited to the finals with it. Then he won the finals that year with that car which he completely redid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99montez34 Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 with just one 12.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 Invent and build THE first component speakers? or you mean ADS' first components were designed by him? I dont think you cant fit much more than a 12" sub in a CRX. btw, back then you bring up the word excursion and people think your woofers broken. they probably never heard that word before. 11 mm of fury. no, but ADS sound so crystal clear, I love em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19Cutlass94 Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 with just one 12.... I thought he was still talking about this two...... sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97CuttySupSL Posted January 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 i have 1000 watt max i dont know the rms on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1990lumina Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 buy Slick's sealed box he has in the for sale section!! if your looking for a box! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99montez34 Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 with just one 12.... I thought he was still talking about this two...... sorry lol didnt mean to sound mean sorry if i did! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99montez34 Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 i have 1000 watt max i dont know the rms on it hmm prob around 380-500 rms on it then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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