19Cutlass94 Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 you dont want your enclosure moving when the subs are going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 you dont want your enclosure moving when the subs are going. glue it down then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSI_MuNkY Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 I think what he means by "moving" is the sides of the box moving from the pressure build up inside, glue would just break apart in that application. and then the thin paneling would still "flex" under the pressure. Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 No flex is the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19Cutlass94 Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 yupp. Thats why MDF is used, hence one of my previous posts, that MDF has a resonant frequncy at which a sub cant play. Therefore it doesnt more. Therefore you get the best responce out of your sub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan from Ohio Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 If someone posts a link to a test report supporting this whole resonance frequency of MDF, I will buy them a beer! Ok... Why MDF? Its dense, plain and simple. Heck its right in the name. When we talk sub boxes we want boxes built that dont flex. If your box flexes, it looses efficency- period. So no flex. MDF is pretty stout material. HDF, Ive never used it. But as I see it, its just a STRONGER verion of this already strong wood. Back to MDF and why its used. Check out the other types of wood the next time your at the lumber yard. You will quickly realize that MDF is the most dense wood there, unless they got HDF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 Why MDF? Its dense, plain and simple. Back to MDF and why its used. yes, back to MDF and why it is used........ why is it used???? wood does not belong in a car... cadillac maybe? wood grain dash? a woody wagon? I use it for the faceplate only. anymore I just make a ring to screw the woofer into and thats it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19Cutlass94 Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 you wounder why you got banned from TPG forums... all these dumbass comments...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 Do you know the real reason? what, you got something against fiberglass? or you just dont want to mess with it cause its messy or something? no experience? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSI_MuNkY Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 Do you know the real reason? what, you got something against fiberglass? or you just dont want to mess with it cause its messy or something? no experience? Maybe a combination of the two? Safer? (the glues in MDF have to meet certain health standards to be used as a building material, fiberglass however if I'm not mistaken lets off a harmfull dust when your sanding it, and not everyone has access to fancy resperators) Thats why I have yet to toy with it, and I don't have the space to do so. With a MDF box you can go to Home Depot and buy the wood and get your first 10 cuts for free, you plan it out right they do all the cutting all you gotta do is assemble it. Also, can you show us any "test data" saying fiber glass is better than wood? (aside from easthetics) Because in my mind it would be less capable of putting out QUALITY sound than wood for the same reason that the MDF is good (resonancy). As for the look, a long long time ago someone created carpet, ingenious really, you can't tell there is wood underneith it! ok, I'm done being an ass... Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 more than aesthetics. strength, and weight reasons, as well as forming instead of flat surfaces which have no benefit in structure. aesthetics being last but another advantage. will not be lured into an argument just so I can get banned here too. sorry. I will however show off some bad ass projects I got going on right now in the near future. you are not an ass, you are thinking about whats going on here. you are intelligent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19Cutlass94 Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 Do you know the real reason? what, you got something against fiberglass? or you just dont want to mess with it cause its messy or something? no experience? Ill admit that Ive never wored with it before. However, I will say this, how do you thinkg you make fiberglass enclsoures? You need some kind of pattern or setup if you will, to lay it out, then fiberglass over that. The used material for that is guess what MDF. If someone posts a link to a test report supporting this whole resonance frequency of MDF, I will buy them a beer! Does this count? To calculate the resonant frequency of the case, take the largest dimention of the enclosure. Multiply this by 2. Divide this figure into 340.29 Metres (distance travelled by sound in a second). The resulting figure will be the resonance frequency (in Hz). http://www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12198 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 From personal use, Fiberglass is stronger AND MUCH MUCH lighter. But, the downfall is knowing what your doing. I've seen many many fiberglass projects fail because the person was in way over there head. It's also one of the main reason I haven't done too much glasswork because of the amount of time it takes. IMO, fiberglass is tons better everywhere. Hell, it can be made to look like stock paneling if you want it to be, not as easy with wood. But, with the time involved it takes to fiberglass, it's a royal pain, which is the main reason a lot of people still do wood boxes. Not knocking wood boxes at all though, it's proven to work, and it works damn good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 why is it so much easier to use glass in my case? probably since I have been messing with okie foam since age 5 and now Im what? 31? we made model volcanos out of foam for a science project. I know its not glass but still. I worked with my dad finishing up houses and building/remodeling convenience stores so we always found ourselves wandering around hardware stores and stuff. dad was always at work while I made messes in the garage and breaking and losing all his tools. tell you what though... if I tried to build my system I got with nothing but wood and screws and elmers glue...aint gonna happen. in fact it would take way longer and require more skills and patience than I posess and have time for. Oh another reason it takes me less time is how much hardener I use. a pretty stout mixture. probably 2-4 oz. of hardener in a 32 oz. big gulp cup. depending on outside temps. I pretty much pour it out and brush it out and by the time I get it absorbed into the glass it hardens. sometimes it hardens suddenly in the cup. but yea, mix it pretty hot and it will cut off lots of time. its 90% skill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 Damn, I thought I used a lot of hardener!!! I've heard too much hardener and it will crack easy. You ever heard or experience this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSI_MuNkY Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 The way I see it, the big thing differing the 2 types of boxes (wood vs FG) is space & shape. If I'm not mistaken, wubs are deisgned with a specific box dimension to adhere to, now obviously its difficult to get that "space" with either type of box, but with a FG box where you have all fancy wavey lines, how can one even get close to the correct volume? Or am I missing something else? I was under the impression to get qyuality sound out of subs you need to get as close to that volume as possible. Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 here is my wheelwell pod. should be all fiberglass and regret using so much wood layers on the face. but needed them for clearance. built it in '02 before the dub 7 came out. and was shooting for 3 type r's.. damn glad I didnt do that had the rings cut out and everything. obviously they didnt need the clearance because they arent as tall as they are wide but if I had done a ring and dowels would have worked way better and taken much less time. I knew how to do it, but never did it until after I saw Slick's job on that one. but was going to do it. its like the opposite of slicks box exactly the only way they both could be better/lighter is if they were both 100% glass. perfect example of how to make more work for yourself use MDF!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 I love the ring and dowel method when fiberglassing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckethead Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 The whole reason for using fiberglass over plain mdf, is you can custom shape it in ways that you can't with mdf alone. for example, if you're trying for a more "integrated" look, rather than just a big box in your trunk. Still, most fiberglass boxes I've seen done still have an MDF frame underneith. Usually, they'll lay out the supports of the box/enclosure with MDF, and place an MDF speaker ring in the mounting location. Then they'll usually stretch a piece of fleece or similar fabric over the enclosure to give it its shape, smoothing out as many wrinkles as possible, and resin over it to make the fabric stiff. Then they glass over the whole thing... finish it off with sanding, bondo, and paint/fabric and you're done. As far as sound quality goes, that depends on the design, and how well the glass-work was done. Large flat areas may require additional bracing or thicker glass to prevent it from resonating, for example. If you know what you are doing, and you take your time, there's no reason a glass box should sound any worse than an mdf-only box. The only disadvantage I can see to making an mdf-only box (aside that it's not always as pretty) is that MDF can start to fall apart if exposed to moisture/wetness at all. It's probably not a big problem for most people, but I would recommend putting an extra layer of fiberglass over the mdf anyway, just in case any water ended up in your trunk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19Cutlass94 Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 Or you can just carpet the MDF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoideraserb Posted January 15, 2007 Report Share Posted January 15, 2007 Or you can just carpet the MDF. correct me if i'm wrong but wouldn't the carpet let water through too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19Cutlass94 Posted January 15, 2007 Report Share Posted January 15, 2007 The carpet will absorb the water before it gets into the MDF. My old box was carpeted, and it got wet several times, and there was no sign of the MDF breaking up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSI_MuNkY Posted January 15, 2007 Report Share Posted January 15, 2007 Carpet would only worsen it if it got REALLY wet, because it would hold the water there that much longer, just moderate dampness would dry up equally as fast. That being said, as much as a W-body trunk leaks, your damned if you do, your damned if you don't! Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted January 16, 2007 Report Share Posted January 16, 2007 Carpet would only worsen it if it got REALLY wet, because it would hold the water there that much longer, just moderate dampness would dry up equally as fast. That being said, as much as a W-body trunk leaks, your damned if you do, your damned if you don't! Jamie shouldnt leak if you got a good seal and your power antenna grommet is not leaking. I welded the hole shut and bondoed over it. but your right, he's talking out his ass. resinating the box before carpeting it wouldnt even keep it from absorbing water over time. automotive environments arent the same as home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSI_MuNkY Posted January 16, 2007 Report Share Posted January 16, 2007 Carpet would only worsen it if it got REALLY wet, because it would hold the water there that much longer, just moderate dampness would dry up equally as fast. That being said, as much as a W-body trunk leaks, your damned if you do, your damned if you don't! Jamie shouldnt leak if you got a good seal and your power antenna grommet is not leaking. I welded the hole shut and bondoed over it. but your right, he's talking out his ass. resinating the box before carpeting it wouldnt even keep it from absorbing water over time. automotive environments arent the same as home. Every w-body I have dealt with so far has had a leaky trunk at one point or another. Its NOT the power antenna, its on teh wrong side. I know the tail lights are a slight cause of the problem, but I know that there is also water coming from somewhere else... my car AND q-balls car leak exactly the same way, get wet spots in the same spots... Back on topic... I think when I build my box in the spring I'm going to cover it in resin like you said, then carpet it the same way I carpet the rest of the trunk. Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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