Lee Posted October 4, 2002 Report Share Posted October 4, 2002 I'm about to do the rear brakes and replace one rotor, did the other last year, and I want to make sure you still feel the same about a question I'd asked awhile back. You'd said: "The correct way to compress the caliper is to completely remove the parking brake lever on the caliper and use a spanner tool and a ratchet and it'll compress. But remember that in reality these calipers don't do what they're supposed to do. So as long as you get a big 10" C clamp with the swivel thing on the end, the piston will compress AND turn in the process. " I'd like to avoid buying a spanner tool if possible since this change will probably take the car through the rest of its life. I want to spring for the carbon-metalic pads. I also noticed that there is a small rubber plug in the caliper. Does this have any purpose in a pad change? In the past I had to buy one new caliper and took the other to Midas to ratchet in. I'd really like to avoid the emergency brake cable removal. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted October 5, 2002 Report Share Posted October 5, 2002 well, during my last rear brake change when the left caliper's Ebrake partially stuck down and wore the outer pad to metal within a few weeks (therefore the piston almost maxed out) and the piston popped out of the bore, I HAD to remove the parking brake lever etc like it says according to the manual. But when I started on the right side, I was so fed up with working on the left side for over a day, I took a C clamp to it and compressed the hell out of it. Just make sure the clamp you use has one of those swivel heads (most do) because the piston is going to want to turn a little. You could try your luck and buy the spanner tool for $5 and see if it reacts correct and compresses, but IF it tries to come out more, use the C clamp instead of the spanner tool. You shouldnt need to mess with the E brake at all if you use the C clamp, but just check it while you're doing the brakes anyway and lube it at the shaft where it rotates. Also, don't worry about that rubber plug in the middle, unless it's leaking brake fluid. Then you'll need a new piston (which usually means new caliper) the piston has a sort of bearing assembly inside it that allows the "inner" part of the piston to rotate for the parking brake (which pushes the piston outwards...this is why when using the spanner tool, if you rotate it the wrong way, it will come outwards). If it wears out, brake fluid will get past it and start coming out of that plug. Hope this helps, sorry for rambling! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crc Posted October 5, 2002 Report Share Posted October 5, 2002 I've worked on and refurbished my share of old, seized calipers and I've never had to completely remove the e-brake. Unless, of course, you are replacing the whole caliper For compressing those rear-calipers the best and easiest way is still the GM tool that is available at any big parts store. You should be able to borrow one for the job at no cost (or very little). I've used both that and the c-clamp. The clamp is a bit harder to work with and if your sloppy you can damage the surface of the piston. As for a rubber plug... You mean the piston boot? or the slider bolt boots? or the rubber cap on the bleeder valve? Lots of rubber on these things.. Both the slider boots and the piston boot are improtant. That is if you want the calipers to not seize every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted October 5, 2002 Report Share Posted October 5, 2002 Almost every time I do the rear brakes, there's fluid dribbling out of that plug. So rear pad changes usually end up being rear caliper changes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted October 5, 2002 Report Share Posted October 5, 2002 No, he means the little rubber (also seen as plastic) button looking thing in the center of the piston face...oh and I should have noted, keep the old inner pad on the piston if you're going to compress it w/o turning, this way you wont damage it. If you want to use the spanner tool AND c clamp that would be even better, but when I compressed it, the piston turned anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted October 5, 2002 Report Share Posted October 5, 2002 Almost every time I do the rear brakes, there's fluid dribbling out of that plug. So rear pad changes usually end up being rear caliper changes! Shawn, are the 94+ rear calipers proven to be more reliable? I didnt know that to do the conversion, you DONT need the knuckles!!! Jeez, that makes it easy! Screw the rear E brake, I only have it hooked up to the pass side anyway and I passed inspeaction... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted October 5, 2002 Report Share Posted October 5, 2002 I don't know if it's proven, but I haven't had a single bit of trouble with my 94 rear calipers. They are significantly easier to rotate for pad replacement than the 88-93. They also don't have that damned rubber plug that I find leaking just about every time I changed the pads on our 88 and 89 Cutty's. So easier rotating and no plug to leak are 2 main benefits! Of course, they're not as good as the separate park brake mech that GM is using these days, but for a bolt-on upgrade, it's as good as it gets. I'd like to get ahold of a gen 2 W-body rear brake setup just to see how different it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPaganel Posted October 5, 2002 Report Share Posted October 5, 2002 So, which part of the caliper is it that makes it stick? Does the piston cock? Does the e-brake lever rust to the caliper? Is it the pins? I really don't have the time right now to pull them apart and look... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted October 5, 2002 Report Share Posted October 5, 2002 The OEM pins sieze up, and the ebrake lever sticks/doesn't release....can't ask for much worse! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted October 9, 2002 Report Share Posted October 9, 2002 i have found that there are several small reasons to do the '94+ rear brake upgrade: 1. pad changes are easy since you can just flip the caliper up out of the way....IOW you don't have to pull the whole caliper off. 2. the rotors are bigger, i think 10.1" vs. 11". most people (including me) don't really notice the increased brake performance, but theoretically... 3. the slider pins aren't notorious for siezing. this is the biggest reason to upgrade alone. 4. it's all bolt on, and the swap should only take an hour or so. you'll have to bleed the rear brakes of course. 5. like Shawn said, no plug leak. there is one bad thing tho - the e-brake. this is ecspecially bad for people with a 5-speed since you can't just throw the car in Park. every time i stop i have to shut the engine off and stick it in 1st in order to get the e-brake to work you need to swap in the '94+ cables too, which is a PITA. joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted October 9, 2002 Report Share Posted October 9, 2002 oh yeah, just thought i'd add... i used a long nose pliers as a spanner tool to compress the piston back into the bore. worked great but went REAL slow. you have to be careful to hold the long nose pliers in there good so you don't scratch the piston face up. this is for the '94+ calipers of course. the old calipers were thrown away immediatly after removal, so i never screwed with them. hth joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STR Posted October 9, 2002 Report Share Posted October 9, 2002 there is one bad thing tho - the e-brake. this is ecspecially bad for people with a 5-speed since you can't just throw the car in Park. every time i stop i have to shut the engine off and stick it in 1st in order to get the e-brake to work you need to swap in the '94+ cables too, which is a PITA. joshua What??? The stock e-brake cables work just fine. I have pic's on this form to prove it! Why would you need to use 94+ cables? That's just more work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZMonte Posted October 9, 2002 Report Share Posted October 9, 2002 there is one bad thing tho - the e-brake. this is ecspecially bad for people with a 5-speed since you can't just throw the car in Park. every time i stop i have to shut the engine off and stick it in 1st in order to get the e-brake to work you need to swap in the '94+ cables too, which is a PITA. joshua GET THE NEW CALIPERS!! they are so much better.. stop better and are SO AMASINGLY easier to change pads. BTW: i am running the 1994+ rear disk on my lumina and i do have the stock E-brake cable. you don't have to change the cables or the pedal. it works, just play with it. I did have to use on the pass side a longer e-brake bracket bolt and a ~1" spacer. then i picked up the slap on the cable via the cable adjustments. RedZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted October 10, 2002 Report Share Posted October 10, 2002 STR, i seen the pics. the passenger side looked fine but the drivers side cable looked like it had to be bent 90' to attatch to the caliper. it looked like it might break after using it alot. i'm not saying it doesn't work, and please don't take this as a flame, but i'd still rather use my '94+ cables. besides i won't have to cut the spring at the end of the cable either. joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STR Posted October 10, 2002 Report Share Posted October 10, 2002 STR, i seen the pics. the passenger side looked fine but the drivers side cable looked like it had to be bent 90' to attatch to the caliper. it looked like it might break after using it alot. i'm not saying it doesn't work, and please don't take this as a flame, but i'd still rather use my '94+ cables. besides i won't have to cut the spring at the end of the cable either. joshua the cable was like that before the upgrade, there is no problem with the setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted October 10, 2002 Report Share Posted October 10, 2002 Now that I think about it, I don't even think the park brake cable on my '89 would have worked on one side... only one side had the round cylinder on the end, the other had a square bracket or something like that. I distinctly remember '89 is like that, but '88 had the same little cylinder on both ends like the 94+. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STR Posted October 11, 2002 Report Share Posted October 11, 2002 Now that I think about it, I don't even think the park brake cable on my '89 would have worked on one side... only one side had the round cylinder on the end, the other had a square bracket or something like that. I distinctly remember '89 is like that, but '88 had the same little cylinder on both ends like the 94+. Mine has that too, it still fits, check out the pic's. THE STOCK CABLES WORK JUST FINE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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