Gen 1.5 suspension work

[kanwisch]

I've been spending a great deal of time absorbing all that's been written on the subject of the motor mount, tranny mount, dogbones, and strut replacments jobs. Did the engine mount rather easily though I screwed up by not using a longer piece of wood; now I've got a nice sized dent in the pan

 

Anywho, I have seen pretty much NO information on how the Gen 1.5 differs from you Gen 1ers. FFP's site is down for at least the second day now so I can't ask if his dogbones work on the Gen 1.5. What about the Fiero poly's? Will they work on my 3.8L Gen 1.5 engine torque mounts? I've got the Lumina LTZ with 215k miles and haven't changed the struts or dogbones out yet.

 

Also, I've seen the notes suggesting the full setup for rear struts: strut assembly, boot, mount. There isn't much out there on the fronts though. I know its an insert so that seems simple, but have folks been putting in a new mount there too? I've read the Haynes procedure and for the front it seems VERY extensive to do anything beyond the insert.

 

I've got a creak on the front passenger side. There are two major suggestions to approach this so I'll take them in order of ease to deal with:

1) Grease the front frame sway bar bushings

2) Replace the spring bushings

I'll report my findings here as I complete each.

 

Lastly, I've got a vibration that I've read about that occurs only as I turn the wheel slightly to either side of forward and I believe there is a pattern involving hills. I've replaced both front hub assemblies already but suspect one of them is actually the cause. One was purchased from Pep Boys and was a quality name (which escapes me right now). The other might have been from Advance, which I've just read a warning about so I might have to replace it AGAIN! Can I use the front right hub assembly on the front left? I happen to have saved the front right since I replaced it only becaues I thought the vibration might be coming from there. Advice greatly welcome.

 

On the engine and tranny mount, I bought both very reasonably from rockauto.com. However, the engine mount needed the tab where one of the bolts is welded on to be trimmed. Use of a hacksaw eased the issue and it seems to work fine. I went with the hydraulic mount since I'm more interested in smooth ride than quick acceleration. Haven't put the tranny mount in b/c mine has no signs of leakage and when I raised the engine there was NO space to get it out. I'm wondering if I have to unbolt the engine mount in order to get the tranny mount out. Since I have to borrow an engine hoist to replace my oil pan's gasket (and straighten the now-bent oil pan) I plan to re-approach the tranny mount at that time.

 

Whoo, what a list of stuff! Thoughts welcome. Updates to follow by New Year's.

[kanwisch]

Update.

 

Got in the KYB's from accessorieswarehouse and put them in. The w-body strut service kit borrowed from Autozone was a must-have just for the cartridge collar alone. Easy job pretty much. Both cartridges came out in pieces with oil everywhere so I clearly waited too long. New lesson for me.

 

Also, I have a request for advice. The driver's side cartridge was a mother to take out because it was not centered on the strut tower hole in the engine compartment. I had to pull the sucker toward the outside to be able to lift it up. Could this be normal for my car? I looked at the strut body itself in the wheel well and everything looked bolted up fine. The outside of the tire's worn more than the inside, but that's the case on the passenger side as well so I think I'm just a bit too speedy in the turns/corners. Advice?

 

Tips:

Use a big-a$$ standard screwdriver to pry up the mount and jounce bumper.

 

I'm am completely puzzled why there are so many recommendations to replace the mount given that its just a huge piece of rubber with one or two metal parts on it. I didn't bother to change mine.

 

Next steps.

 

I looked over all my bushings in the rear and they're getting cracked so I'm planning to postpone the rear strut replacement until warmer weather appears since I'll pull all the other stuff off and replace rubber bushings at the same time. Too dang cold here to do all that work in my unheated garage

[ns87]

I feel bad no one was able to answer any of your questions, but I'm no help. I was honestly proud of myself when I did my transmission filter. Good luck with it all!

[Crazy K]

Got in the KYB's from accessorieswarehouse and put them in. The w-body strut service kit borrowed from Autozone was a must-have just for the cartridge collar alone. Easy job pretty much. Both cartridges came out in pieces with oil everywhere so I clearly waited too long. New lesson for me.

thats normal. the original front struts were hydrualic and not gas. the rears are OEM gas.

 

Also, I have a request for advice. The driver's side cartridge was a mother to take out because it was not centered on the strut tower hole in the engine compartment. I had to pull the sucker toward the outside to be able to lift it up. Could this be normal for my car? I looked at the strut body itself in the wheel well and everything looked bolted up fine. The outside of the tire's worn more than the inside, but that's the case on the passenger side as well so I think I'm just a bit too speedy in the turns/corners. Advice?

doesn't mean a thing. most likely from natural variances in the springs, unlevel ground or having the wheels turned when you serviced the unit. and underinflation or high speed turns will wear your tires, which you already gave an answer for... I notice that many W-bodies have their wheels camber outwards meaning under inflation may wear the outside edge away more. Try upping your inflation level by maybe 5 pounds?

 

Tips:

Use a big-a$$ standard screwdriver to pry up the mount and jounce bumper.

I bounce the car up and down and that usually does the trick.

 

I'm am completely puzzled why there are so many recommendations to replace the mount given that its just a huge piece of rubber with one or two metal parts on it. I didn't bother to change mine.

 

Next steps.

 

I looked over all my bushings in the rear and they're getting cracked so I'm planning to postpone the rear strut replacement until warmer weather appears since I'll pull all the other stuff off and replace rubber bushings at the same time. Too dang cold here to do all that work in my unheated garage

the rear mount on Gen 1s is what we're all refering to. The fronts seem fine. looks like the 1.5s are only marginally better in the long run.

 

and last but not least.... the gen 1.5 is the same front suspension, drivetrain, and chassis as the gen 1's. The rear suspension is where the chassis differ.

 

[kanwisch]

Thanks for the feedback.

 

New updates:

I greased the front sway bars with no effect on my creaking and it doesn't bug me enough to want to replace the front spring bushings so I'll just have to live with that.

 

Also, my vibration story is complex. I didn't fully tighten lugs on front driver's one time and a few lugs broke off so I just replaced the whole hub assembly. Well, I noted this vibration after the hub assembly replacement so I figured my front passenger hub went too, so I replaced it. Issue was still there. Fortunately I still had the front passenger so I re-replaced the front driver's side. Cause was a bad, new hub assembly. Got it from a local dealer and its a BCA so I'll be taking it back in with the receipt for a new one. The front passenger is an SKJ(?) and required a torque setting beyond the stock setting so I got a third torque wrench that goes way the hell up (>150 ft-lbs). The BCA torque is stock (156 ft-lbs if I recall correctly). I believe both are Federal Mogul so its unclear what the real differences are, but I'd put an SKJ on the front driver's if I could do it all over again.

[Crazy K]

no prob.

 

any more questions?

[joey b]

can I get some cliff's notes please

[kanwisch]

I'm am completely puzzled why there are so many recommendations to replace the mount given that its just a huge piece of rubber with one or two metal parts on it. I didn't bother to change mine.

 

Next steps.

 

I looked over all my bushings in the rear and they're getting cracked so I'm planning to postpone the rear strut replacement until warmer weather appears since I'll pull all the other stuff off and replace rubber bushings at the same time. Too dang cold here to do all that work in my unheated garage

the rear mount on Gen 1s is what we're all refering to. The fronts seem fine. looks like the 1.5s are only marginally better in the long run.

 

and last but not least.... the gen 1.5 is the same front suspension, drivetrain, and chassis as the gen 1's. The rear suspension is where the chassis differ.

 

Got a follow-up to this since there's little to no writing on the 1.5s rears (that I could find in a Search). So has anyone done the rears on the Gen 1.5's struts and if so, did you HAVE to replace the mount an boot? The cost of those things together ($86) are more than the freakin' struts ($65)!

 

Second follow-up. Can I use the SensaTrak mount in the rear for KYB struts? The SensaTrak mounts go for $30ea locally WITH boot while the KYB kit runs $67 minimum!

[kanwisch]

Ok, new update. I did the work to put on the rear struts (KYB's of course ). Required tools included the w-body strut kit and a spring compression kit, both of which I loaned from Autozone. I did NOT have to replace any of the mounts or boot covers and the car has 223k miles on it so IMO nobody with this generation should have to bother with the rather large expenditure for those items. And yeah, I do drive on rather unfriendly country roads so those things have gotten a big workout!

 

Anywho, I didn't pull the calipers, despite being recommended in my service manual. Also, I used a hand sledge on the knuckle-strut bolt with the nut just on the end of the bolt to prevent mushrooming. Worked well. The nut comes off to take off the stabilizer and then you put it back on and pound away. The bolt is ridged at the head end so it can't be turned to sort of "screw" it out, thus the sledge.

 

It was amazingly easy to do, just follow the typical manual procedures. The big rubber "bubble" in the trunk is just popped off with your hands from inside the trunk. When I was lifting the new struts into place I'd lowered the knuckle way down with the jack, attached the strut with the bolt to the knuckle, and then lifted the whole thing up into the three bolt opening in the body at the top using the jack. Just near the top I paused and used my fingers to feel if it was aligned correctly.