buying coilover parts separately & some questions

[GnatGoSplat]

Yeah, the TDC ones. Are you just going to let the spring sit against the upper mount? I suppose with that slight taper at the bottom, the spring might not move.

 

[slick]

Yeah, the TDC ones. Are you just going to let the spring sit against the upper mount? I suppose with that slight taper at the bottom, the spring might not move.

 

 

I wouldn't chance it. Too much risk in that. I'd spend $50 or more on perches before I would let it just sit in there.

[TurboSedan]

How about taking some detailed measurements/drawings of those upper spring perches so we can have a machine shop make some up?

 

 

will do Shawn. i'm going to be in my brother's shop painting the struts tonight so i can easily take measurements & pics of the TDC spring mount while i'm at it. that would be GREAT if someone could remake it ecspecially if they could improve upon it. i think one in steel would be better, that way it could be welded to the stock strut mount so it would stay in place. also, it would be better if the lip that extends down into the coil spring was at least longer or better yet longer & cone shaped like GTP_MuNkY suggested earlier.

 

i really think the noise associated with the FFP coilovers is that there is NO strut mount!!! wtf! all it is is a spring mount with a little poly between the spring and spring mount. no wonder they are noisy!

[CSI_MuNkY]

Yeah, the TDC ones. Are you just going to let the spring sit against the upper mount? I suppose with that slight taper at the bottom, the spring might not move.

 

 

I wouldn't chance it. Too much risk in that. I'd spend $50 or more on perches before I would let it just sit in there.

 

No, not letting them rest against the mount itself, I'm modifying the existing strut mount to allow somewhere for the spring to seat so it doesn't slip off the side...

The yellow peice in the below CAD drawing will be welded to the existing mount...

Going to a machine shop to get a custom part made up seems counter productive to me when I'm trying to build coil overs for less than what FFP and Held want for them, and by getting a 1 off part machined, I might as well just buy the FFPs...

 

Jamie

[TurboSedan]

the only problem i see with the yellow piece in your CAD drawing is that when the spring becomes completely unloaded (during sharp U-turns, pulling sharply into a steep driveway etc.) the spring will probably catch against the outer edge of the yellow piece and prevent it from seating correctly. sort of the same problem i have with my TDC mount but mine catches on the inside lip.

 

i think a modified version of the TDC spring mount would be the way to go.

[CSI_MuNkY]

If you could get me the dimensions of the TDC mount I can see what my guy can do with them... I'm just expecting that to be expensive thats all....

Even if you just doodle up something in MSPaint, or even doodle on the pics you posted the other day... I could draw them up in cad, modify them and send them to him and see what he says... I suppose making them out of steel would save a bit of cost...

 

As for mine, I think all it would take to salve the seating problem is a peice of rubber or neoprene sculpted into a cone and put inside the spring to fix that...

 

Jamie

[GnatGoSplat]

That's a cool diagram, how'd you draw that?

 

Maybe it's just me, but I don't really like the thought of having to weld something to the upper mount. I consider the upper mount to be disposable. They wear out and they can also rot out. Surely an upper mount with some kind of fastening mechanism could be designed...

 

[CSI_MuNkY]

That's a cool diagram, how'd you draw that?

 

Maybe it's just me, but I don't really like the thought of having to weld something to the upper mount. I consider the upper mount to be disposable. They wear out and they can also rot out. Surely an upper mount with some kind of fastening mechanism could be designed...

 

 

AutoCAD 2006... in 3D mode

 

Thats the thing though... any mount you make will wear out and should be "disposable". There is no way I could consider having a new mount custom machined every time i have to do suspension to be disposable.

As it stands the rear mounts are $50 a peice for me... the angle iron I can pick up for less than $10 and the welding I can have my buddy do in my fathers garage... so why have custom mounts machined for probably at least double the cost when I can just modify the existing mount for an extra $10?

I don't see whats wrong with my idea here... to me it looks like it would work just fine and still be affordable...

 

The only other option is to go with "disposable" OEM mounts and have an add on like the TDC peice, but even then like TurboSedan said in his second last post, it should be welded into place so it doesn't move, then you gotta toss it and have a new one made when you do your struts... For a machined part to be feesable for me, it would have to be 100% re-usable (like the TDC one) stay in place in the event the spring unloads, and then have the spring seat back down on it properly...

 

I just got an idea.........

 

Jamie

[GnatGoSplat]

Actually that's what I meant, a reusable add-on piece like the TDC upper perch (I accidentally called it a "mount" in my last reply) that somehow affixes to the upper mount without welding. Maybe threads, snaps, bolts, or clips into or onto it or something.

[CSI_MuNkY]

Actually that's what I meant, a reusable add-on piece like the TDC upper perch (I accidentally called it a "mount" in my last reply) that somehow affixes to the upper mount without welding. Maybe threads, snaps, bolts, or clips into or onto it or something.

 

Working on something in cad now... I'm thinking something like the TDC, but also like mine, something that will cup the spring and the OEM mount, and then using a large c-clip or cotter pin idea it will be held to the oem mount... because that eom mount does have a lip on it...

 

Jamie

[TurboSedan]

Actually that's what I meant, a reusable add-on piece like the TDC upper perch (I accidentally called it a "mount" in my last reply) that somehow affixes to the upper mount without welding. Maybe threads, snaps, bolts, or clips into or onto it or something.

 

Working on something in cad now... I'm thinking something like the TDC, but also like mine, something that will cup the spring and the OEM mount, and then using a large c-clip or cotter pin idea it will be held to the oem mount... because that eom mount does have a lip on it...

 

Jamie

 

i just don't really like the idea of making an upper spring mount that 'cups' the spring - i just think the spring is going to catch on it each time it becomes completely unloaded and the car's weight come back down on it. if the spring is off a little, it will catch on it and not seat correctly. if the part of the spring mount that 'cups' the spring on top were wide enough and angled downwards at like a 45* angle i think it would work though. i guess i'd have to see your idea to understand what you're planning on....

 

i like the idea of using a spring mount like the TDC mount but make the part that goes into the strut mount able to fasten to the mount via a C-clip or hell, drill straight through the very lower portion of the strut mount and use a large cotter-pin to fasten the spring mount to the strut mount. of course, the lip (on the spring mount) that extends into the strut mount would have to be made longer in order for this to work but that should be easy. i originally thought it might be possible to make it so the TDC mount could be screwed onto the strut mount, but after looking at my old strut mount here in front of me there just isn't enough material to tap the strut mount for threads.

[TurboSedan]

crap i've been busy busy busy lately. i'll try to get those pics & measurements tonight!

[TurboSedan]

no measurements quite yet, just some pics of the painting for now. i lightly sanded the area with 220 grit paper and then rubbed them down clean with 91% rubbing alcohol. i hope that's good enough (i'm a total newb to painting anything). then i masked off the sleeves and strut shafts:

 

http://www.turbosedan.com/cutlass/brakes_susp/DSC03113.JPG

http://www.turbosedan.com/cutlass/brakes_susp/DSC03114.JPG

 

i put 3 light coats on (waiting a few minutes between coats as per the directions on the can) and then in about an hour i'm going to flip them over and paint the other side. the paint is a little brighter than i would have liked but oh well. no one is going to see that area anyway.

 

i also cleaned up my TDC spring mounts with a bench mounted wire wheel:

 

http://www.turbosedan.com/cutlass/brakes_susp/DSC03115.JPG

http://www.turbosedan.com/cutlass/brakes_susp/DSC03116.JPG

[slick]

Thats all there is to those mounts???

[TurboSedan]

Thats all there is to those mounts???

 

yeah...but the stock strut mount is still used. it's not like that's the only thing between the spring and the car's body.

[TurboSedan]

i got some pics & measurements of the TDC aluminum upper spring mount....

 

side view:

 

overall width - 1.10"

http://www.turbosedan.com/cutlass/brakes_susp/DSC03132.JPG

 

width between spring and strut mount - .35"

http://www.turbosedan.com/cutlass/brakes_susp/DSC03130.JPG

 

length of lip that extends down into coil spring - .50"

http://www.turbosedan.com/cutlass/brakes_susp/DSC03131.JPG

 

length of lip that extends up into strut mount - .25"

http://www.turbosedan.com/cutlass/brakes_susp/DSC03133.JPG

 

spring side:

 

overall diameter - 3.50"

http://www.turbosedan.com/cutlass/brakes_susp/DSC03119.JPG

 

spring seat width - .50"

http://www.turbosedan.com/cutlass/brakes_susp/DSC03122.JPG

 

spring lip width - .125"

http://www.turbosedan.com/cutlass/brakes_susp/DSC03123.JPG

 

outer diameter of spring lip - 2.50"

http://www.turbosedan.com/cutlass/brakes_susp/DSC03124.JPG

 

inner diameter of spring lip - 2.25"

http://www.turbosedan.com/cutlass/brakes_susp/DSC03125.JPG

 

strut mount side:

 

inner diameter of center hole - 1.10"

http://www.turbosedan.com/cutlass/brakes_susp/DSC03120.JPG

 

strut mount lip width - .25"

http://www.turbosedan.com/cutlass/brakes_susp/DSC03126.JPG

 

strut mount flange width - .95"

http://www.turbosedan.com/cutlass/brakes_susp/DSC03127.JPG

 

outer diameter of strut mount lip - 1.60"

http://www.turbosedan.com/cutlass/brakes_susp/DSC03134.JPG

[TurboSedan]

got the painting done. i could have done better but this will work:

 

http://www.turbosedan.com/cutlass/brakes_susp/DSC03137.JPG

http://www.turbosedan.com/cutlass/brakes_susp/DSC03138.JPG

 

oh, i also found "200" stamped into the top of my springs, so i guess that means they are 200lb springs?

http://www.turbosedan.com/cutlass/brakes_susp/DSC03139.JPG

[CSI_MuNkY]

oh, i also found "200" stamped into the top of my springs, so i guess that means they are 200lb springs?

 

Sounds like a resonably safe assumption...

 

I'm going to use all those measurements to do a CAD drawing at some point this weekend, then I will modify it and plot it, take it to a couple machine shops to see what they say about making it.

 

I would get to it sooner, but I'm crammed with final assignments this week...

 

When done I will post up the drawings, if everyone likes it I will post up a pdf that anyone interested can print on their home printer and take to a machine shop to have made.

 

Hows that sound?

 

I think I have a pretty good idea of what everyone wants to see....

 

Jamie

[TurboSedan]

FINALLY got the parts installed! the car drives soooo much nicer now

 

looking pretty empty in there:

http://www.turbosedan.com/cutlass/brakes_susp/DSC03141.JPG

http://www.turbosedan.com/cutlass/brakes_susp/DSC03142.JPG

 

no more gouged/scratched up coilover sleeves/adjuster nuts or oil all over the place:

 

 

well i guess i'm done with my car, hopefully you can get that mount fabbed up Jamie. good luck!

[pwmin]

any updates jamie?

 

thought i would add some new info i was made aware of by kuntzie

 

you can get sleeves, rings, and springs from a1racing.com , but if you use their stuff you can use any 12" long coil w/ a 2 1/2" id and no honing required if you get the right sleeve

 

more info here: http://www.w-body.com/forum/index.php/topic,55194.0.html

[CSI_MuNkY]

Sorry I took so long, like I mentioned in my re-introduction post, I've been away a while.

 

I've pretty much abandoned the DIY coil over idea... bottom line was the upper spring mounts were going to be the death of me. The friend I had in a machine shop no longer works in a machine shop, so I would have to find a shop to make them. And one offs would cost a fortune!

 

In addition to this I've decided I want coil overs on all 4 corners.

 

I just read the thread on Kuntzies home builts, I would really be interested in seeing what he used for mounts.

 

My main problem with making my own right now is I have 1 week to do all the work. And I can't get a good enough look at the top of the front strut to know what to expect to need in the way of a mount. I don't exactly have time to get it all ripped apart, come up with an idea have the mount made and install it. I've got new ideas for the rear mounts, but don't know if they would work for the fronts as well....

 

If anyone could post some pics of the stock upper spring mount in the front that might give me a better idea. I just went out to the car and had a look and I can't see anything helpfull.

 

So for right now... I'm planning to go with the Held kits

 

Jamie