buying coilover parts separately & some questions

[TurboSedan]

well i decided not to get the honing tool and just let a machine shop do it for me. i don't want to accidentally hone them out crooked so they wobble on the strut body. that wouldn't be good!

 

[CSI_MuNkY]

well i decided not to get the honing tool and just let a machine shop do it for me. i don't want to accidentally hone them out crooked so they wobble on the strut body. that wouldn't be good!

 

 

Any idea what that is going to cost you?? If its cheap I might just do the same when the time comes...

 

Jamie

[TurboSedan]

i'll let you know. i've had the local machine shop here do quite a bit of work for me in the past and the guy there is always really cool and they seem to charge me fair prices.

[CSI_MuNkY]

So I talked to my welder... He said it shouldn't be a problem to weld that seat on to an existing mount, the big issue will be heating up the angled steel to wrap it around the mount. With the rubber that is on there it could all burn up. I think I have to get myself a torch and see how easily it burns, or find a way to get the rubber off so the part can take the heat.

 

Jamie

[TurboSedan]

i'm going to take my AFCO sleeves and struts to the machine shop tomarrow. i probably won't be able to get pics of him honing them out though. hopefully it won't cost too much or take much time. i would think it would be really easy for them to hone 1/16" out of a 5" aluminum sleeve.

[TurboSedan]

well i'm getting a little closer:

 

this is the upper lip that needs to be ground down so the sleeve fits over it:

 

after a few minutes with a bench mounted grinding wheel, i removed the lip:

 

as you can see the sleeve can now slide down to the strut body. i haven't done the one on the right yet:

 

to my surprise, i found that the bottom end of the sleeve has a taper that goes about 3/4" into the sleeve:

 

that taper actually lets the sleeve slide over the strut body about 3/8" past the welded bead:

 

the top of the sleeve doesn't have this taper, so it stops here:

 

i'm going to go grind the lip off the other strut, then bring the sleeves and struts to the machine shop. from the looks of it, they will barely need to be honed out at all to fit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TurboSedan]

one down, one to go:

 

 

 

 

i went down to the machine shop and the guy actually stopped everything he was doing and started in on it right there! i watched the whole process. most of the material was cut using a lathe and then finished up using a drill & cylinder hone (the spring loaded type with 3 stones). i'm bringing the other strut in tomarrow and hopefully i'll be able to get pics of the process. it took a good hour for him to get everything setup right with the lathe and cut exactly enough material out but tomarrow it should be a breeze. he told me $25 per sleeve which IMO is a good deal since he got it done for me on the spot not to mention the time it took to get everything setup (this isn't exactly the type of thing he's used to doing).

 

hopefully i can get the new KYB GR-2 struts, KYB strut mounts, and coilovers installed tomarrow or the next day.

[CSI_MuNkY]

Sweeeeet! Just gotta slap some paint on there so you don't get rust ruining your work!

 

How snug of a fit is it?

So those sleeves just sit on the bottom part of the strut?

I found a kit that comes with some sort of locking clip....

 

Jamie

[TurboSedan]

now that i'm basically done with the project, i'll show you how much i saved. FFP doesn't sell parts separately, so AFCO Racing was the only way (and i'm 99.999999% sure they get their parts from AFCO anyway).

 

i had two options:

 

$327 shipped - FFP coilovers without struts

 

OR

 

$63.70 shipped - AFCO Racing 5" sleeves and adjuster nuts

$52.50 - machine work for sleeves

=

$116.20

 

$326 - FFP coilover kit without struts

$116 - my way going through AFCO & a local machine shop

=

$211 saved. sure i would have had the FFP upper mount but all i hear about are people complaining that they are noisy not to mention hearing stories of waiting 4 months just to get them! and i would have had an extra set of springs i wouldn't need anyway.

 

i'm happy. i basically saved over $200 bypassing the middle man and having the machine work done locally.

[TurboSedan]

Sweeeeet! Just gotta slap some paint on there so you don't get rust ruining your work!

 

yeah i'm definately going to clean that area up and paint it before i install them.

 

How snug of a fit is it?

So those sleeves just sit on the bottom part of the strut?

I found a kit that comes with some sort of locking clip....

 

Jamie

 

the sleeves fit pretty snug, you have to press down on them a bit to push them all the way down into the 'cupped' area the sleeve sits in (which is exactly how my TDC kit is and the FFP kit is). i haven't seen the kit with the locking clip but the AFCO adjuster nuts have a set screw with a plastic tip that presses against the sleeve to prevent it from turning. just gotta make sure you use anti-sieze on that and DON'T get it too tight. i did that with my TDC coilovers and ended up stripping out the allen head set screw heads

 

also, to prevent the sleeve from being siezed to the strut (which is what caused me to find replacements in the first place) the machine shop added LOTS of anti-sieze between the sleeve and strut body. it wasn't the cheap Permatex anti-sieze; it was some really high quality stuff (according to him anyway haha).

[CSI_MuNkY]

It might be worth pointing out to people that are starting this from scratch (like me) the springs will be an added cost on top of that, BUT you can get springs from just about any spring manufacture provided they are the correct dimensions. I'm trying to hunt down some red or black ones. I might even go for a lighter spring rate, I dunno yet... I think the harder ones would perform better in the corners.

 

Also, those of you in Canada, FFP and held come from the US, which means on top of that $327 you will have any taxes, shipping fees, and boarder fees. I think it would probably double the cost. Whereas the parts to do this are available at just about any performance shop.

 

 

Josh, what did you ultimately decide to do for the upper mount? just let it rest against the stock mount?

 

also, to prevent the sleeve from being siezed to the strut (which is what caused me to find replacements in the first place) the machine shop added LOTS of anti-sieze between the sleeve and strut body. it wasn't the cheap Permatex anti-sieze; it was some really high quality stuff (according to him anyway haha).

 

So you had him install the sleeve onto the strut rather than doing it yourself?

 

I'll go and get a name of that kit with the locking clip on Wed, I also found a new performance shop that I want to check out for parts.

 

Jamie

[TurboSedan]

It might be worth pointing out to people that are starting this from scratch (like me) the springs will be an added cost on top of that, BUT you can get springs from just about any spring manufacture provided they are the correct dimensions. I'm trying to hunt down some red or black ones. I might even go for a lighter spring rate, I dunno yet... I think the harder ones would perform better in the corners.

 

yeah, but i when i started this thread i was interested in "buying coilover parts separately" and not actually making a kit like you are. i achieved my goals.

 

 

Josh, what did you ultimately decide to do for the upper mount? just let it rest against the stock mount?

 

i'm reusing my TDC solid aluminum mount. i never had any problems with it besides the spring not seating into it every once in awhile. that really wasn't a big deal though.

 

also, to prevent the sleeve from being siezed to the strut (which is what caused me to find replacements in the first place) the machine shop added LOTS of anti-sieze between the sleeve and strut body. it wasn't the cheap Permatex anti-sieze; it was some really high quality stuff (according to him anyway haha).

 

So you had him install the sleeve onto the strut rather than doing it yourself?

 

yeah. well....all he had to do was push it down onto the strut which took maybe 2 seconds after he was done honing it out. i brought the strut with me of course so he could measure the OD of the strut body compared to the ID of the sleeve. after he was done removing material using the lathe he got it close enough that he could finish it off by using the drill & hone. it's a nice snug fit.

 

[pwmin]

awesome i wouldnt even worry about the upper mount, munky, but im still very interested. if it can be done cheap enough, maybe it will be worth the cost.

 

i like my blue coils, but let us know which coils you find will work and cost. im thinking about getting some 150 or 200# springs for mine for in the winter so the ride's not as rough when i dont want it to be.

[slick]

Damn Josh, those look like they are turning out pretty nice!

[TurboSedan]

sorry guys, i couldn't get pics of the machine work being done to the other sleeve today. damn, if i would have known he was going to do my 1st sleeve right then and there yesterday i would have brought my camera! when i went there with the 2nd one today he was too busy with another project at the time so i just had to drop it off and leave.

 

got the other one done though, so hopefully i can get these installed tomarrow! my new 245/50s should show up tomarrow as well. woot!

[TurboSedan]

i got bored tonight so i decided to roll the Cutlass into the garage and get to work removing the old rear struts/coilovers!

 

here are the old dirty KYB strut/coilover assemblies:

 

 

yeah...i think it's safe to say this one is completely blown out

http://www.turbosedan.com/cutlass/brakes_susp/DSC03070.JPG

 

you can see why i needed the new parts from AFCO Racing. since the set screw in the old adjuster nuts stripped out, the only way i could adjust them was by using two pipe wrenches - one to hold the sleeve still and the other to turn the adjuster nut. they got even more marked up from me trying in vain to remove them from the old struts. all of that oil/grime is from the strut being blown and leaking all over:

http://www.turbosedan.com/cutlass/brakes_susp/DSC03071.JPG

 

the other KYB strut was actually still good but probably near the end of it's life anyway. the sleeves & adjuster nuts weren't marked up so bad on this side, but like the other side, they would NOT come off the old struts:

http://www.turbosedan.com/cutlass/brakes_susp/DSC03072.JPG

http://www.turbosedan.com/cutlass/brakes_susp/DSC03073.JPG

 

just a pic of the springs. these came with the TDC kit i ordered back in 2001. i think TDC (twindualcams.com) probably got them from AFCO Racing.

http://www.turbosedan.com/cutlass/brakes_susp/DSC03074.JPG

 

these are the TDC upper spring mounts. they go between the top of the spring and the strut mount....

 

spring side facing up in these pics:

http://www.turbosedan.com/cutlass/brakes_susp/DSC03075.JPG

http://www.turbosedan.com/cutlass/brakes_susp/DSC03076.JPG

 

strut mount side facing up in these pics:

http://www.turbosedan.com/cutlass/brakes_susp/DSC03077.JPG

http://www.turbosedan.com/cutlass/brakes_susp/DSC03078.JPG

 

TDC spring mount side pics:

http://www.turbosedan.com/cutlass/brakes_susp/DSC03081.JPG

http://www.turbosedan.com/cutlass/brakes_susp/DSC03082.JPG

 

TDC spring mounts sitting on top of the springs:

http://www.turbosedan.com/cutlass/brakes_susp/DSC03079.JPG

 

pic showing the TDC spring mounts between the new strut mounts and springs:

http://www.turbosedan.com/cutlass/brakes_susp/DSC03085.JPG

 

pic showing the new AFCO Racing sleeves & adjuster nuts on the new KYB GR-2 struts:

http://www.turbosedan.com/cutlass/brakes_susp/DSC03086.JPG

 

garbage!

http://www.turbosedan.com/cutlass/brakes_susp/DSC03087.JPG

 

everything here is brand new except the springs and the aluminum TDC spring mounts. new KYB GR-2 struts & hardware, new KYB strut mounts, new AFCO Racing sleeves & adjuster nuts etc. i just preassembled these for the sake of taking pics tonight. i still need to paint the area of the strut that the machine shop ground down to smooth out the welded bead area:

 

new parts kick ass

 

the new struts and coilovers are DEFINATELY going in tomarrow, but it will probably be Saturday before i can get the new tires on the car.

 

woot!

[CSI_MuNkY]

Lookin good!

 

How bad were the old strut mounts?

 

Jamie

[TurboSedan]

they were a littly rusty inside but they still looked fine IMO. they didn't make noise or anything. but they do have ~240,000 miles on them. rust really isn't an issue here in Wyoming thankfully.

 

btw, did anyone ever find out if the FFP upper spring mount doubles as the strut mount? IOW do you use a stock rear strut mount with the FFP coilovers? that may be why people complain of them being so noisy (mine aren't). it might also explain why they use a 7" sleeve instead of the the 5" sleeve.

[CSI_MuNkY]

if you go to their site they have an instalation guide.

There is a pic on page 8 that says it all for me, they do use their mount in replacement of the stock one

 

http://www.fastfwdperformance.com/pdf/FFP%20coil-over%20instructions.pdf

 

What are you doing with the old mounts?

 

Jamie

[TurboSedan]

if you go to their site they have an instalation guide.

There is a pic on page 8 that says it all for me, they do use their mount in replacement of the stock one

 

http://www.fastfwdperformance.com/pdf/FFP%20coil-over%20instructions.pdf

 

i think that probably has alot to do with the complaints people have about FFP coilovers being so noisy. i'm glad i didn't buy them!!!!

 

What are you doing with the old mounts?

 

Jamie

 

i was going to throw the old strut mounts away today, but if you want them just pay shipping and they're yours. i'm talking about the OEM strut mounts NOT the aluminum TDC spring mounts of course...

[CSI_MuNkY]

if you go to their site they have an instalation guide.

There is a pic on page 8 that says it all for me, they do use their mount in replacement of the stock one

 

http://www.fastfwdperformance.com/pdf/FFP%20coil-over%20instructions.pdf

 

i think that probably has alot to do with the complaints people have about FFP coilovers being so noisy. i'm glad i didn't buy them!!!!

 

What are you doing with the old mounts?

 

Jamie

 

i was going to throw the old strut mounts away today, but if you want them just pay shipping and they're yours. i'm talking about the OEM strut mounts NOT the aluminum TDC spring mounts of course...

 

Thanx! awesome... Just let me know what shipping will be to London Ontario N5V 1W8!

the mounts Q-ball gave me are shot and permenently attached to the struts... (find a new mechanic Jason!)

 

Jamie

[TurboSedan]

Thanx! awesome... Just let me know what shipping will be to London Ontario N5V 1W8!

Jamie

 

will do, but it might be a week or two. i'm leaving for VA hopefully this Monday or Tuesday and won't have time to ship them before then.

[twalt13]

This project looks awesome! great work men!! Now for my 2 cents in referance to the spring coming out of its socket / holder. Why not use some limiting straps like the 4x4 guys do? attached is a link. The principal is to have the limiting strap, limit it from coming out. The length would be determined by the user.

 

http://www.stylinconcepts.com/parts.aspx/partfamilyid/1609/subcategoryid/200/categoryid/30

 

I'd make mine with 1/2 straps. Attaching it to the upper and lower strut mounts.

 

 

[GnatGoSplat]

How about taking some detailed measurements/drawings of those upper spring perches so we can have a machine shop make some up?

 

[CSI_MuNkY]

How about taking some detailed measurements/drawings of those upper spring perches so we can have a machine shop make some up?

 

 

What ones are you talking about? the TDC ones?

My only concern with getting a machineshop to make custom parts is the expense, it can't be cheap unless you are getting a lot of them done...

 

Mine on the other hand use the stock mount, a few inches of angle iron and a few minutes to weld together...

 

Jamie