buying coilover parts separately & some questions

[Guest TurboSedan]

after looking at that pic again I'm wondering how good of an idea it is to rest the spring up against the stock mount, your still going to end up with alignment problems so your not fixing that problem, and I THINK the shape of the stock mount may distort the spring over time if its not sitting properly... (cause thats MY luck)

 

you may be right (although Paul didn't sem to have problems).

 

I think all the TDC mounts are missing is a cone shape on the mount to guide the spring into the seat...

 

the cone shape is a GREAT idea! that would definately be better than simply making the lip longer.

 

when you have the strut at full extension how much space is there between the spring and seat? also, at full compression how much space do we have to allow for a cone inside the spring before it starts to hit the strut?

 

i'll have to go out and check my car. i'll be sure to get pics of all of this too.

 

I'm gonna play with CAD a bit... I have a couple hours before I have to leave for work...

 

Jamie

 

good luck and let us know how it goes! thanks

[pwmin]

i will take a pic of the bottom of the mount too, but theres no sign of wear on it that ive noticed. it also seems to go down on the piece correct every time (the bottom of the mount is convex), so i dont see any alignment issues. i guess this was pretty much said, but i think the best thing would be to have something similar to the tdc mount, but a longer sleeve. not only would that keep the spring on, but it would also protect the strut rod some like the sleeve on the stock mount.

[pwmin]

okay, got some pics for ya:

 

(first 4): http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v476/pwmin/new%20sway%20bar/

 

 

you can see in the 4th pic where the bottom of the mount has some surface rust where the coil doesnt sit. i see no signs of deterioration.

 

i forgot that i did have some noise issues. there would be some clunking or creaking (cant remember which; its been a while since its done it). if i turned the spring to the right spot, it would go away, though.

 

HTH

[Guest TurboSedan]

okay, got some pics for ya:

 

(first 4): http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v476/pwmin/new%20sway%20bar/

 

you can see in the 4th pic where the bottom of the mount has some surface rust where the coil doesnt sit. i see no signs of deterioration.

 

i forgot that i did have some noise issues. there would be some clunking or creaking (cant remember which; its been a while since its done it). if i turned the spring to the right spot, it would go away, though.

 

HTH

 

after seeing those pics (and looking at the new KYB strut mount i have on my desk right now) i'm pretty convinced that nothing between the top of the spring and the strut mount itself will work just fine. i'm definaely going to try it. i wish it wasn't so damn cold out this week though. i don't have a heater in my garage either. oh well i gotta wait until the AFCO stuff shows up anyway.

 

thanks for the pics Paul.

[Guest TurboSedan]

okay, got some pics for ya:

 

(first 4): http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v476/pwmin/new%20sway%20bar/

 

WOW, no wonder your Grand Prix sits so much lower than my Cutlass Paul! compare the location of your adjuster nut on your sleeve (your pic #3) to this pic of mine:

 

http://www.turbosedan.com/cutlass/brakes_susp/DSC00865.JPG

 

that's looks like it would be at least a 3" difference in ride height!

 

btw i tried looking for any more pics of my coilovers i have on my server but didn't find any. i wish i got some pics when i had them out last week. i'll get plenty later though

 

oh, and is your suspension completely unloaded in those pics? because when mine is completley unloaded i definately have more space between the top of the spring and the strut mount. i was thinking maybe that was becuase of your adjuster nuts being set so much lower but that doesn't make sense maybe you have longer springs than i do?

 

you have Held coilovers right?

[CSI_MuNkY]

So all I got in CAD today was the stock mount drafted up... I can post a screan cap if anyone requests it. I made it based on the stock mounts I got off Q-ball, they are his old ones so there could be a slight margin of error (accounting for rust and crap on them)

My main worry about putting the spring right up against it is if it were to lean towards the strut rod when you lowered the car, it would get pinched and could damage something... my solution to this? neoprene or some other soft rubber or plastic... cut a peice that is a tight fit inside the spring and drill a hold in the center big enough for the strut rod to go through. When your done the neoprene would squeeze into the spring and slide freely over the rod, but it would allow it to stay in place till you got it lowered...

 

thoughts?

 

another idea I had while I was at work... shelf angle, take a small peice of shelf angle about 10" in length and wrap it around the stock mount... if anyone has problems seeing this I will post a pic as soon as I get it drafeted up in CAD

 

BTW... these cad drawings I'm doing are in 3D

 

Jamie

[pwmin]

yeah, its weird how low the st springs made my car. i had to have the rear that low to equal out the front. the car is 3" lower than stock (somehow?)

[Guest TurboSedan]

yeah, its weird how low the st springs made my car. i had to have the rear that low to equal out the front. the car is 3" lower than stock (somehow?)

 

that is wierd. my Eibachs didn't seem to lower the front of my car that much, which is why i bought the Intrax springs to replace them. and the Intrax didn't seem to make it sit any lower than the Eibachs did. either the ST springs have alot more drop than either Eibach or Intrax springs, OR my 3.1/282 combo is ALOT lighter than your 3.4/4T60-E. or a combination of both.

 

since the Intrax didn't seem to lower the front on my car any more than the Eibachs did, i think i'll probably put the Eibachs back in since they ride so much nicer. or maybe i'll buy me a set of ST springs insead. i guess JC Whitney started selling them again?

[CSI_MuNkY]

Heres where I'm at with the CAD drawing... still need to adjust the spring a bit, but you get the idea

 

 

Jamie

[Guest TurboSedan]

looks good, keep up the good work!

[97loudcut]

Okay so Josh...

 

I am looking to buy the FFP kit with the struts and everything allready put together. it is like $400.

 

Is this basically all the same stuff minus the struts?

[Guest TurboSedan]

Okay so Josh...

 

I am looking to buy the FFP kit with the struts and everything allready put together. it is like $400.

 

Is this basically all the same stuff minus the struts?

 

consider buying your KYB GR-2 struts from somewhere else to save money. if you do that though, you'll have to grind the strut lip down a little yourself (FFP does this for you) so the sleeves slide over the strut tubes (it's no big deal; it took me like 5 minutes with a hand file).

 

if it were me i would buy the FFP coilover kit without the struts, then go to tirerack and buy ALL new KYB GR-2 struts AND new strut mounts from them.

 

or better yet (if it will be awhile before you buy this stuff that is), wait and see what we come up with here and save alot more money on a rear coilover kit that is possibly better than the FFP kit

 

besides, do you really want to wait 4 months to recieve your FFP coilover kit?

[97loudcut]

Okay so Josh...

 

I am looking to buy the FFP kit with the struts and everything allready put together. it is like $400.

 

Is this basically all the same stuff minus the struts?

 

consider buying your KYB GR-2 struts from somewhere else to save money. if you do that though, you'll have to grind the strut lip down a little yourself (FFP does this for you) so the sleeves slide over the strut tubes (it's no big deal; it took me like 5 minutes with a hand file).

 

if it were me i would buy the FFP coilover kit without the struts, then go to tirerack and buy ALL new KYB GR-2 struts AND new strut mounts from them.

 

or better yet (if it will be awhile before you buy this stuff that is), wait and see what we come up with here and save alot more money on a rear coilover kit that is possibly better than the FFP kit

 

besides, do you really want to wait 4 months to recieve your FFP coilover kit?

 

Well I don't mind the wait. But that was some good info. Thank you.

[CSI_MuNkY]

So it turns out, I can get all the AFCO stuff locally and maybe save myself some money there too! I'm going to take in the part numbers from Page 3 and get a price tomorrow morning...

 

About that FFP wait... we might even have something figured out before you would even get your kit!

 

 

Jamie

[97loudcut]

Yeah I am curious to see where this goes.

[Guest TurboSedan]

So it turns out, I can get all the AFCO stuff locally and maybe save myself some money there too! I'm going to take in the part numbers from Page 3 and get a price tomorrow morning...

 

kick ass! i still haven't gotten a tracking # from AFCO. i have the order # but when i check the link for my tracking info it still says "no information available at this time." you'll probably know how the sleeves will work before i will considering you can get them locally.

[CSI_MuNkY]

So it turns out, I can get all the AFCO stuff locally and maybe save myself some money there too! I'm going to take in the part numbers from Page 3 and get a price tomorrow morning...

 

kick ass! i still haven't gotten a tracking # from AFCO. i have the order # but when i check the link for my tracking info it still says "no information available at this time." you'll probably know how the sleeves will work before i will considering you can get them locally.

 

Well I can't afford them yet... I gotta save some cash for all this work to be done... I'm just going for prices tomorrow...

 

When I do mine I will also be doing the front (considering doing the coil over thing up there too) and I will also be doing the rear 34mm Adco bar... needless to say I have a little bit of saving to do... so you will probably have an answer before me

 

Jamie

[Guest TurboSedan]

and I will also be doing the rear 34mm Adco bar... needless to say I have a little bit of saving to do... so you will probably have an answer before me

 

Jamie

 

i'm going with ST spring for the front. i've now tried both Eibach and Intrax front springs and they just didn't get the front low enough

 

the rear Addco bar is actually 22mm. the 34mm bar is the biggest sway bar you can get for the front (mine should be here any day now woot!)

[CSI_MuNkY]

and I will also be doing the rear 34mm Adco bar... needless to say I have a little bit of saving to do... so you will probably have an answer before me

 

Jamie

 

i'm going with ST spring for the front. i've now tried both Eibach and Intrax front springs and they just didn't get the front low enough

 

the rear Addco bar is actually 22mm. the 34mm bar is the biggest sway bar you can get for the front (mine should be here any day now woot!)

 

Whats stock in the rear?

I'm told I probably already have the 34mm up front stock... I just dunno what RPO code to look at to know for sure...

 

Is there any reason your going with ST springs up front instead of coil overs? expense? ease of installation?

 

Jamie

[Guest TurboSedan]

Whats stock in the rear?

I'm told I probably already have the 34mm up front stock... I just dunno what RPO code to look at to know for sure...

 

Is there any reason your going with ST springs up front instead of coil overs? expense? ease of installation?

 

Jamie

 

yeah you already have the 34mm bar up front considering your car has the LQ1. i'm not sure on the stock rear bar diameter - it differs between cars. i know the '95 Brickyard Monte Carlo got a 22mm rear bar from the factory but the factory rear bar from my old Turbo STE was the only about the size of my pinky finger!

 

i don't want to go with coilovers up front because of installation worries, hardly any feedback (and the one member here who did install front Held coilovers hated them). besides, ST springs are only $80.

[CSI_MuNkY]

ST springs are only $80.

 

Yeah I saw that... makes it quite tempting... at the same time I like the idea of the adjustability of the coil overs.

What would be real nice is if KYB was making the AGX for our cars....

 

Do you recall what that one member didn't like about them??

 

Jamie

[97loudcut]

I want to lower my car but the $459 from FFP is hard to swallow.

[Guest TurboSedan]

my AFCO Racing coilover sleeves showed up tonight! they got here in 6 days and the parts look great so i'm very happy with them so far.

 

it will be awhile before i can try fitting them onto my GR-2 struts though. i have to:

 

- grind down the upper lip of the strut so the sleeve will fit over that. i'll take care of that tonight with a Dremel.

 

- then i'll need to figure out what needs to be done to get the sleeve to slide over the strut tube. the ID of the sleeve is 2.055", and the OD of the strut tube is 2.12". that's a .065" difference. will the previously mentioned oven/freezer method work WITHOUT honing the sleeves at all? that would be great of course, but just from going by the looks of the sleeves, they are actually a little thicker than what i was expecting so i am 99% sure there is definately enough material there to remove some if needed and still be very safe. if any material does need to be removed, it will be hardly any at all.

 

these AFCO Racing parts are looking to be a great solution so far. if (when) i get the sleeves on the struts i'll be ordering 4 adjuster nuts and then i can finally install my coilovers with the new KYB GR-2 struts and my new KYB strut mounts. that will be a big relief as my rear suspension is absolutely horrible right now.

 

later

[CSI_MuNkY]

SO I got prices today...

 

PN# 20133 - C-O Adjuster Nut - Blue - $28.97 (yours was $28.12)

 

PN# 20134 - C-O Sleeve Aluminum - Threaded (5in.) Blue - $26.97 (yours was $25.58)

 

PN# 22250 - AFCOIL 12in. Coil-Over 250lb Rate (2 5/8in. I.D.) Yellow - $88.97(yours was $119.90)

 

For a total of $144.06 + tax = $164.23 (Canadian)

 

While I was there he mentioned he MIGHT be able to get some from another company in another color, specifically red rather than blue. I'm going to look into this when I have more time to spend at the speed shop... I just stopped off breifly today on my way to work so couldn't stick around...

Now, him saying he can get them in different colors from another company makes me wonder if they are in different sizes, namely that inside diameter of the sleeve.

 

Jamie

[timg]

Club GP has a thread like this as well. IIRC, they found a sleeve that will fit without any grinding/heating. I'd love to see where all of this goes!

 

Tim