oh noes! another hid question

[pwmin]

so, what would happend if i put these in my stock low beams (already have 9006 silverstars in there)?

http://stores.ebay.com/Smart4Cars

i know ppl who have put them in their 97-03 gp's without any type of projector and they work great and dont piss other people off, but they have clear lenses. are they gonna look like shit? is that the "ebay kit" everyone is talking about?

 

other question is if they will look like shit and i decide to make my own headlights, i would use 9007's and use the clear headlight covers to make the front so they would be clear. would i just join the 2 grounds for the 05/06's and wire up a 3-wire pigtail for the 07's using the ground and pwr wires for both lights or is there something else i would need to do?

 

thx

paul

[slick]

Because you don't have clear lenses, light will just go everywhere. Not good.

[GnatGoSplat]

Clear lenses don't make any difference. Headlights with fluted lenses have a smooth reflector. Non-projector lights with clear lenses use a computer-designed reflector with a specific pattern that does the job of what the smooth reflector+fluted lens used to do. Light will go where you don't want it to either way because the reflector is not designed for HID's any more than a halogen fluted-lens headlamp is.

 

The only way to get a proper beam pattern is to use both clear lenses and projectors.

 

[slick]

Clear lenses don't make any difference. Headlights with fluted lenses have a smooth reflector. Non-projector lights with clear lenses use a computer-designed reflector with a specific pattern that does the job of what the smooth reflector+fluted lens used to do. Light will go where you don't want it to either way because the reflector is not designed for HID's any more than a halogen fluted-lens headlamp is.

 

The only way to get a proper beam pattern is to use both clear lenses and projectors.

 

 

I didn't want to get too specific, but this was along the lines of what I was thinking.

 

Basically, your headlamp is not designed for this type of light output. Without other type's of modifications, it wouldn't look right at all.

[dohc v6]

WOW

[pwmin]

WOW

 

?? u know there arent any projectors that will retrofit into the mini-quads so im thinking of something else to do cuz the st's just dont cut it. i might try them since theyre so cheap and easy to install. unless the projector fogs from a cobalt would be able to be retrofitted and hid'd.

[GnatGoSplat]

?? u know there arent any projectors that will retrofit into the mini-quads so im thinking of something else to do cuz the st's just dont cut it. i might try them since theyre so cheap and easy to install. unless the projector fogs from a cobalt would be able to be retrofitted and hid'd.

 

Not true, Audi's have some really small projectors.

 

Although, miniquads are so small and put out very little usable light so I doubt HID's will be blinding. I have HID 9006's in my convertible's headlights and they aren't blinding at all. They still suck though. If you're doing it for looks, it'll be fine and won't blind anyone. If you're looking for decent night-time lighting, simply putting HID bulbs in them won't really give you that.

 

[dohc v6]

Ok In order to do a retrofit the first and most inportant is to research. If you dont do research then your going to running around in circles. First what you need to do is find out what grade or quality of light you want. HID'S are awsome but maybe you can only afford halogens. Next you need to research projectors. What is the size of the mini quad light? can you even fit a projector behind it.Third you are going to need new covers for the headlight. The fluted design is not going to cut it. Plus the hole point of mounting a project is then useless. I have a person that custom forms new clear covers if you want his name. Once you have the research part dont you can then go ahead and buy the parts. Hopefully all the research you did will make the retro fit very easy. But with the fluted lenses that is going to be impossible. I spent more than 40 hours on each headlight to make them just perfect. I will shoot up some pics when the board will let me. Anyways with that all said there are good forums out there for hids and retro fits. I suggest you sign up for one. But it is all worth it.

[GnatGoSplat]

Miniquads are flat and rectangular. They are probably the easiest lights to make clear, just cut plexi to the right shape and there you have it! Not only that, but they also have a metal ring so your cut doesn't have to be very precise because the metal ring will hide any imperfections.

 

[pwmin]

ok, thanks. the wow didnt help very much, lol. i might just try it the easy way and do what gnat said about the plexi on the stockers and get that kit even though its ghetto. i dont think they would look bad with just the hid's and a clear lens since they are so small. i didnt know the audi ones are that small. the cobalt ones are just over 2" in diameter. they are 55W H11's. that might not be a bad idea either. the ghetto ebay link does make H11 hid replacements.

[dohc v6]

Now you cant put a clear piece of plexi glass and use and hid bulb, if you make it clear you have to use a projector

[GnatGoSplat]

Yeah, just clear lenses on your stock lights would make the glare and beam pattern worse than the fluted lens. You need some projectors in there if you make them clear. Audi TT halogen projectors are real small, 1-5/8". They're not designed for HID so the beam pattern won't be quite right, but projectors aren't quite as bad about stray reflections. I think A4/S4 halogen projectors are pretty small too. You can actually get HID projectors from an Audi A2 that are real small, but you'd have to get them imported from Europe because I don't think Audi A2's were ever sold here.

 

[pwmin]

oic, thanks. thats weird that the guys i know with that same kit with clear lenses (97-03 gp lenses are clear) they look/work great. maybe ill just try that pos for now with my stockers and see how it is. ill prob do some more research on retrofitting though since i need to finish the body work first.

[dohc v6]

THats becuase they have a rear reflector. Yes you can just stick the bulb in the socket and it will work. Heres the thing the older headlights(fluted) just are not ment to have hids. The newer headlight with clear lense will get an OK light out put it certain modifications. You actually have to make a shield to go over the hid bulb. Thats how they can do it on the navigator and acura.

[GnatGoSplat]

THats becuase they have a rear reflector. Yes you can just stick the bulb in the socket and it will work. Heres the thing the older headlights(fluted) just are not ment to have hids. The newer headlight with clear lense will get an OK light out put it certain modifications. You actually have to make a shield to go over the hid bulb. Thats how they can do it on the navigator and acura.

 

That's not true. There is NO difference between fluted and free form halogen (clear w/computer-designed reflector) headlights in light output or performance. The ONLY benefit to the latter is aesthetics, that's it!

The reason older Acura TL's and Navigators had acceptable beam patterns with free form headlamps is because they were designed for HID's in the first place. HID's in halogen free-form headlamps are no better or worse than HID's in fluted halogen headlamps.

 

In fact, there are several cars with fluted headlamps designed for HID that have an acceptable beam pattern. Mercedes comes to mind, and the 00-02 S-Class if you want a more specific example.

 

In general, it's more difficult to get a good beam pattern from HID's in a reflector housing whether free-form (clear) or fluted, that's why HID's are predominantly projectors and also why they had to experiment with different masking patterns (D2R).

 

[dohc v6]

Well heres the thing. the new clear headlight have the reflector in the back of the headlight. Thats how they can make the front lense clear. Now the navigator and acuras have a special designed socket that the bulb fits into to reflect the light only were the socket is opened. The mercedes might have hids in fluted not sure on that one but i bet the beam output sucks ass. Anyways I have never seen a hid from an oem car come with fluted lense. you got a pic

[GnatGoSplat]

Yeah, the clear headlights have a pattern on the reflector, and that pattern does pretty much the same thing as the fluted lens. Clear reflector headlights bend photons via reflection, fluted lens bends photons when they pass through, but the end result is the same - beam pattern to FMVSS standards. You can't put a HID bulb in any halogen headlamp, fluted or not, and expect it to have a proper beam pattern.

Navigator and Acura headlamps w/HID's were designed that way. They didn't just throw HID's in a halogen headlamp and say "it's clear so it's okay".

 

Not the best pic, but these had OEM HID headlights with fluted lenses.

http://www.4arnolds.com/merc2.jpg

 

You can bet they didn't suck ass, because German headlight laws are far stricter and superior to both US and Canada.

 

[slick]

Yeah, the clear headlights have a pattern on the reflector, and that pattern does pretty much the same thing as the fluted lens. Clear reflector headlights bend photons via reflection, fluted lens bends photons when they pass through, but the end result is the same - beam pattern to FMVSS standards. You can't put a HID bulb in any halogen headlamp, fluted or not, and expect it to have a proper beam pattern.

Navigator and Acura headlamps w/HID's were designed that way. They didn't just throw HID's in a halogen headlamp and say "it's clear so it's okay".

 

Not the best pic, but these had OEM HID headlights with fluted lenses.

http://www.4arnolds.com/merc2.jpg

 

You can bet they didn't suck ass, because German headlight laws are far stricter and superior to both US and Canada.

 

 

Yep, the European countries follow ECE standards(japan follows there own standards while meeting ECE standards).

 

 

[GnatGoSplat]

Ah hah, found some better pics of the S-Class HID on eBay:

 

Pic of the lights on:

http://i6.ebayimg.com/05/i/08/7d/ce/a2_12.JPG

 

Headlight closeup showing the fluted lens:

http://tech-ad.techdisposal.com/space/images/vehicle/cleve/target10.html

 

Another:

http://tech-ad.techdisposal.com/space/images/vehicle/cleve/target11.html

 

They use D2R's.

 

Here's a few pics just because I love the side profile of those cars:

http://imagehost.vendio.com/bin/imageserver.x/00000000/teamverdone/P4360112.JPG

http://images.ecarlink.com/photos/940_339/640x480/05.jpg

http://www.vmotors.com/image.php?Id=5448

http://carad.ebayimg.com/i19/04/a/08/7b/ec/2d_4.JPG

 

[dohc v6]

Yeah thats what I was saying. THey are not junk headlights its just that a projector unit will supercede any fluted or freeformed headlight any time. But I do see what you are saying how they are made to have hids. I was kind of saying that becuase in order to make it work they get rid of a lot of the light out put. but are still brighter than halogens any day of the week.

[dohc v6]

http://www.faqlight.carpassion.info/special-topics.htm

 

this is waht I was talking about

[pwmin]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/05-06-EQUINOX-COBALT-G6-PROJECTOR-FOG-LIGHT-DRIVER-NEW_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33709QQihZ005QQitemZ150040287863QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

 

that is what im talking about (no im not using that stupid catch phrase, lol). would that be able to be retrofitted into a mini-quad and put the H11 hid bulbs in? thats cheap too.

 

so, if i put those hid bulbs in my mini-quads (what shaun did), theyre only going to look good and arent going to be any better light output for night driving than silverstars, is that what youre saying? i dont wanna waste my money

[GnatGoSplat]

That projector is a fog light. I wouldn't use that as a headlight.

 

I don't know, I never had silverstars, but my HID's don't really seem that great for night driving in the miniquads. The ones I put in my 89 are a ton brighter, but the beam pattern is all out of whack.

 

[slick]

That projector is a fog light. I wouldn't use that as a headlight.

 

Yep, in fact I have sold about 6 pairs of them, and I have pictures of the beam pattern against my apartment building. If you do want a pair of these though, see my ad in the other stuff for sale section.

[dohc v6]

DO NOT USE THAT PROJECTOR. It first off will not give you enought light out put needed. you will probably run into things. Fog lights and driving light are not the same. Fog light have a yellow bulb in them for driving the fog. This way it cuts through but does not go very far. Driving lights are used for highway use when you need a little more light. these go much further down the road and are very bright. As far as doing this the right way, you really need to get some good projectors and a good hid kit. Miine are amazing. Look at the post here.http://www.w-body.com/forum/index.php/topic,46366.30.html.

 

I really can help you get a good light out put. Just let me know what you want to do.